Strategic Development Committee May 12 2026

Unknown: Day one.

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Unknown: Good evening and welcome to the strategic development committee and special board meeting of May 12th

SPEAKER_13: 2026

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Unknown: Chief legal officer, please conduct the roll call

Unknown: director fishman here

Unknown: Director Herbert here chair Samborn

SPEAKER_12: Director

SPEAKER_12: Fishman and vice chair her bar present chair Herbert is is absent though. I believe she may be phoning in and remotely

SPEAKER_12: also present our

SPEAKER_12: directors Bowie Thompson and Vice President kirth

Unknown: Okay item number one on tonight's agenda is to provide the board an overview of climate impacts

SPEAKER_13: Projected for smud's Upper American River project or you are as we like to call it

SPEAKER_13: Including an update of statewide trends and water management

SPEAKER_13: highlights from smud's

SPEAKER_13: 2025 focus study of the you are and a discussion of smud's projects and

SPEAKER_13: operational measures to address historic and future

SPEAKER_13: variability and

SPEAKER_13: so now our presenters will come forward and

Unknown: We'll get to get some interesting information

Unknown: All right. Well very good. Good evening and thank you for that introduction vice chair

SPEAKER_04: Herber so again, my name is Josh line and director of power generation for smud and tonight we get the opportunity to

SPEAKER_04: Actually through a series of presentations take a look back in time

SPEAKER_04: But also more importantly look into the future with respect to climate change and those

SPEAKER_04: Impacts that we can anticipate and that's really done through climate forecasting and modeling as we think about that and that impact to

SPEAKER_04: Potentially how we operate our hydro assets today part of our you are

SPEAKER_04: It's really important to acknowledge that those assets are a cornerstone to our energy supply for the last 60 years

SPEAKER_04: Those have been operating very reliably right meeting our clean clean energy goals

SPEAKER_04: They've been meeting our affordability goals and of course our reliability goals

SPEAKER_04: So over that 60 years, of course, we've seen a lot of climate change

SPEAKER_04: We've seen a lot of impacts to climate change and we've continued to operate those assets very reliably

Unknown: Right, that's not without a lot of hard work a lot of planning and long-term planning and a lot of I'll say

SPEAKER_04: Operations and maintenance endeavors whether those are asset improvement projects whether those are just focus on operational practices

SPEAKER_04: So tonight we get the opportunity to really look forward and understand

SPEAKER_04: What are those potential changes to our climate and how that may impact our?

SPEAKER_04: operations of our critical assets that are critical for

SPEAKER_04: Continuing to serve and meet our zero carbon plan for the future. So let me quickly just walk through the agenda for tonight

SPEAKER_04: As we think about our presenters the first one, dr. Michael Anderson

SPEAKER_04: He's the California State climatologist for the Department of Water Resources also with NOAA

Unknown: Really what dr. Anderson will walk us through is he'll look at what are the big climate change impacts we've seen

SPEAKER_04: What are some of those trends going into the future?

SPEAKER_04: How does that really impact kind of our water management at the state level and then also more importantly?

SPEAKER_04: He'll talk about some new research and tools that really will facilitate

SPEAKER_04: our operation and collaboration going forward and that continued successful operation of our hydro assets and then we'll transition to dr

SPEAKER_04: Owen daugherty he's a principal research scientist for Eagle Rock

SPEAKER_04: Analytics and so as we take a little bit of a zoom-in approach, it's really looking at our hydro assets very specifically in

SPEAKER_04: 2025 we did

SPEAKER_04: Conclude a study that really looked at what are the the weather vulnerabilities?

SPEAKER_04: What are the climate change vulnerabilities looking out to mid century and how might those impact the operations of our units?

SPEAKER_04: So he'll cover that and some key takeaways for those studies and then we'll get an opportunity to look at really from the operational

SPEAKER_04: Perspective, how do we manage these variabilities? So our manager of resource optimization Christine Gianini

SPEAKER_04: Will talk about how we manage the variability every year, right? Every year we see something different in terms of the water year

SPEAKER_04: This year in particular as you look at you know our snowpack

SPEAKER_04: You know just last week. Kiso released their planning and resource study for 2026 in that assessment

SPEAKER_04: They noted that from the water year perspective in the snowpack perspective across the state of California

SPEAKER_04: We're seeing the second lowest snowpack in recorded history

SPEAKER_04: Behind 2015 so as we continue to manage these challenges

SPEAKER_04: It's very important to look to the future acknowledging that there have been challenges

SPEAKER_04: There has been variability in terms of weather impacts, but looking forward

SPEAKER_04: We'll continue to see those impacts be more pronounced more frequent

SPEAKER_04: And so how are we going to manage those going forward?

SPEAKER_04: And I'll come back to highlight some key projects and initiatives we're looking at in the long term

SPEAKER_04: So as we look at our long-term planning we look at a decade or more

SPEAKER_04: What are some of the initiatives and projects we're looking at today that will better

Unknown: Allow our hydro assets to be more flexible and really weather no pun intended the storms of the future so with that

SPEAKER_04: I'll turn it over to dr. Michael Anderson. Thank you

Unknown: All right good evening everybody

SPEAKER_10: So try and provide a little context here of

SPEAKER_10: Where we are now to help understand what comes next

Unknown: and

SPEAKER_10: All right, so here we go. So let's start with the idea of normal

SPEAKER_10: so this is how NOAA defines what your current climate is it take 30 years and

SPEAKER_10: Average it and then so your average climate

SPEAKER_10: Represents what has happened in the previous 30 years, so I put two of them up here

SPEAKER_10: I put one at the beginning of the 20th century. Those are the blue dots and

SPEAKER_10: The triangle is the average of those 30 years

Unknown: And you see that the blue dots are pretty close to the triangle

SPEAKER_10: So average is a pretty good guess of what kind of year you're gonna get

Unknown: now fast forward into the 21st century and we have our

SPEAKER_10: 1991 to 2020 normal as the

SPEAKER_10: Diamond there with the squares being the individual years that make it up

Unknown: Now the little table up in the upper right shows the numbers

SPEAKER_10: We've warmed about two degrees Fahrenheit on average for California over this time period

Unknown: Average precipitation is about the same

Unknown: But the year-to-year values are very different guessing average now is only the first step

SPEAKER_10: Understanding the variability around average is what becomes much more important

Unknown: And so want to use that as kind of our starting point for the conversation

Unknown: Alright, so if you thought the past decade was a little tricky

SPEAKER_10: You're right, and this is another way to look at it

SPEAKER_10: So we take all the years in the historical record and we break them into the distribution

Unknown: From wet to dry warm cold warm and size of snow packs we have three pieces on here

Unknown: For in the middle of the distribution

Unknown: This is where our infrastructure was designed. This is where it works. Well, and you saw in history that wasn't a bad guess

Unknown: Now as you see particularly in the last decade

Unknown: We don't land there too frequently either with precipitation snowpack and certainly not temperature

Unknown: It took the epic snowpack of 2023 to get the temperature back into the average range

Unknown: otherwise, we're really out at the extreme and this gets to the point that

Unknown: Everything works when you're in the expected range the anomalous range probably got a playbook that can get you through

Unknown: When you get into the extremes, this is where you're usually working with emergency orders

SPEAKER_10: Really trying to navigate conditions to get by

Unknown: When that happens once a decade, that's not a problem

Unknown: When it's happening almost all the time

Unknown: This gets a little harder to explain why you're constantly having to seek

SPEAKER_10: Deviations from the rules to

SPEAKER_10: Navigate what mother nature is throwing at you, but this is a good graphic to show you

Unknown: She's really throwing some things at you and just to give you some numbers here from 2012 to 2016

Unknown: Four years we averaged 33 percent of a normal snowpack over those four years that included the lowest in 2015 at only 5%

Unknown: But the 33 percent of average is the projection for an end-of-century snowpack

Unknown: So I tell people you had a practice round it was rough

Unknown: But it's doable

SPEAKER_10: Also seven of the ten warmest years in the historical record are on that chart there

Unknown: They've all happened since 2014 and by the way this year's on pace to break the record of 2015

Unknown: So we'll set a new

Unknown: Edge to the temperature distribution this year

Unknown: All right, so building a water year and this is how I like to walk people through

SPEAKER_10: Is that there are some things that are still the same?

Unknown: And it's good to kind of ground ourselves in that notion that we still orbit the Sun

Unknown: There still has its seasons due to its tilt in the fall. This is when our precipitation onset sets in on

SPEAKER_10: Average up in Del Norte County. It's October 1 for San Diego County. It's Halloween

Unknown: So the month of October is on average when our precip starts and we really look for that first storm of the season, right?

Unknown: Great when it shows up a little bit of a bummer when that drifts into November

Unknown: In this Southern, California found out a few years ago when it waits till February

SPEAKER_10: Significant problems develop

Unknown: But we really look for that onset because that's the chance to start getting the watershed wet and we want the watershed wet

SPEAKER_10: While that Sun angle is still up there

Unknown: Because if it waits long enough the first storms end up being snow, but it's snow on a dry watershed

Unknown: So what you see is a percent snowpack is not going to be

Unknown: The runoff and that was a significant problem in 2021

Unknown: So I list some of the things there winter our big three 90 days half our annual precept shows up in this time window

Unknown: So this is the make or break rounder and we often find it's not wet or dry anymore

Unknown: there are windows where it is wet and really exciting and

Unknown: Then the high pressure sets in and it's just another sunny day at a time where we're supposed to be accumulating our water and snow

SPEAKER_10: Spring late season bailout the miracle March right that happened once in 1991

SPEAKER_10: We kind of hope for it

Unknown: Or you get a month like this year where nothing happens and oh by the way

Unknown: Snow melt decides to get started early

Unknown: But now we're also finding with warming temperatures. It's not just the wet we have to learn more about the dry

Unknown: how things dry down and

Unknown: In the wintertime when it's 68 degrees in the mountains

Unknown: If it's not raining it's now beginning to dry out so it's a much more dynamic

Unknown: And start to think of the watershed as a much more dynamic presence now reacting to the weather

Unknown: Now I say people get we get to April 1 the numbers come in

Unknown: If they're not what people want the first question they'll ask me well, what about next year?

Unknown: And after a minor we're still trying to work on getting you a good seasonal outlook

Unknown: Now multi-year not so good, but even more important is that bottom line?

Unknown: How different will the next decade be

Unknown: I'm asking this because in four years in 2030 will have our ten years of data

SPEAKER_10: No, we'll update the normal. So this will be our first 21st century normal

Unknown: But 2021 to 2030 is going to replace 1991 to 2000

Unknown: Temperatures very different

Unknown: Some precip extremes and snowpack extremes very different

Unknown: That gets folded into what your average is so in a sense are you ready for that?

Unknown: And you need to kind of keep that in mind as change becomes more dynamic

Unknown: All right, so how do we deal with it? Well one we're extremely fortunate to be in, California

Unknown: And I said it's because the state has for the past decade begun to recognize that it's not just how much total water

Unknown: But how much managed water capability you have right and the goal then becomes can you get more managed water capability?

SPEAKER_10: That means you're increasing your benefit and

Unknown: More and more you're decreasing your hazard at the same time

Unknown: Because you're trying to tap into the same storms and so that's a hydrograph and just saying

Unknown: We raise our managed water capability closer to the top of the hydrograph

Unknown: We're doing both. How do we do that?

SPEAKER_10: Observations knowing the state of the watershed knowing the state of the river stay the reservoirs what is happening now?

Unknown: More importantly what's coming those forecasts become really important because they help us get ready for what's coming next

Unknown: But you can have the coolest observations, and I have some really cool wind profile or data. I can show you

SPEAKER_10: But if I don't describe it to you. It just looks like some rather interesting artwork

Unknown: And again the forecast without the right context

Unknown: Doesn't do you any good. That's why that top bar that helps raise the managed water capability

SPEAKER_10: It's turning that information into something usable

Unknown: And as we go through this and change

SPEAKER_10: having research at the core

Unknown: It's going to power us through these times where we keep saying well. I haven't seen that before

Unknown: And to do this I

SPEAKER_10: Stressed the importance of partnerships, and there are three keys communication collaboration and coordination

Unknown: Working together we can do this. It's doable

Unknown: And I know sometimes when it gets really wild it's kind of hard to see that

Unknown: So this is the other key that I think is just absolutely fabulous

Unknown: We have a defined physical feature in the atmosphere that delivers our water

Unknown: Sometimes a whole bunch at once like this storm here. This is the October 2021 storm. That is that black arrow

Unknown: largest atmospheric River of that water year

SPEAKER_10: But coming off the second driest year in history what a blessing

SPEAKER_10: Because things were really looking kind of grim in October 2021 this storm comes through we see rivers

Unknown: Actually, Sacramento River rose 10 feet on one storm Wow right yeah, but it was almost

Unknown: You know dry so getting water in there was fabulous unfortunately it didn't really work all the way through but

Unknown: with our partnership at Scripps understanding the storms understanding the

SPEAKER_10: Characteristics of these storms how to leverage that knowledge in our forecasts

Unknown: We can be better water planners and so really excited about this partnership. That's had a decade now and

SPEAKER_10: Looking forward to our next decade with them to really move forward on some of these ideas

SPEAKER_10: Including our efforts in forecast and former reservoir operations, which they have been a key partner with our work with the Corps of Engineers

Unknown: And this is it our research and operations partnership

SPEAKER_10: So we've spent about a year investing with the Center for Western Weather and Water extremes, and we're not the only ones

SPEAKER_10: We helped start the center, but right now we're maybe about a third of the funding that comes in for them I

Unknown: Stressed we want the funding because we want to keep their attention on our interesting problems here

Unknown: Yes, the West is a big place, but we'd really love to keep them focused on, California

SPEAKER_10: Because they're really bright people one of the things they have is this really cool catalog

Unknown: of all the atmospheric River since 1950

Unknown: year-to-year count a distribution through the year and

SPEAKER_10: More importantly the direction in which they hit because it's hugely important with the way our mountains are

Unknown: Storms have come out of the Southwest the good old pineapple expresses

Unknown: Interact with the mountains in the American Yuba and feather rivers in a much different way than if it's coming up over a ridge

SPEAKER_10: And it's coming out of the Northwest

Unknown: The production of the watersheds entirely different

Unknown: So understanding that and understanding and seeing that the biggest atmospheric rivers tend to hit

Unknown: From the Southwest and those tend to be the ones we remember

Unknown: Alright, so I tell people well we have data

SPEAKER_10: Lots of data and this was developed by a friend at desert research Institute. He's a paleo

SPEAKER_10: Hydrologist so he loves to layer data, but I really like it because and he called it

SPEAKER_10: 2017 the subtropical symphony

Unknown: but it just shows how dynamic things were in that year and

SPEAKER_10: Really amazing with the number of atmospheric rivers

SPEAKER_10: The yellow dots are this freezing elevation where rain was turning to snow and looking that it's going from 2000 to 10,000 feet

SPEAKER_10: Right we're going from Auburn to the top of the watershed where it's raining and

Unknown: Trying to keep that that track of that through the storm

SPEAKER_10: And we see with the gray line

Unknown: Yeah, sometimes when it shoots up and the snowpack dips a little bit as you get some of that rain on snow

Unknown: But we have information we're learning about it. We're learning about the processes

SPEAKER_10: Understanding what to look for to help understand how to get the best out of it

SPEAKER_10: That's why I say what information is available. What's useful?

Unknown: Sometimes you can get so much data

Unknown: It loses its utility and then how is it presented the other little rectangle just for reference that was

SPEAKER_10: the three weeks in

SPEAKER_10: 2023 those where we essentially had winter we had 46 percent of our annual precip in those three weeks

Unknown: Kind of exciting 86 percent of a seasonal snowpack developed in those three weeks

SPEAKER_10: just

Unknown: Comparing two very wild years in our recent history

Unknown: All right. So what else?

Unknown: We don't just stop at the weather forecasting with our friends at scripts

SPEAKER_10: We're really pushing out into the seas of sub seasonal and seasonal

Unknown: Really looking at 30 to 90 day window and this is a really cool

Unknown: Tool that came online this year really looking at the next four weeks

Unknown: And trying to look at the structure of the atmosphere and match it to one of 16 patterns noting that those 16 patterns

SPEAKER_10: Correspond to a precip pattern across the Western US

Unknown: And how dark the purple is is how much many of the global forecast models are agreeing? So if you're in one

SPEAKER_10: In one of those first four there and they're all there

Unknown: You can pretty well guess it's going to be another sunny day

Unknown: Gets a little more exciting when it gets into those around 10 and 12 where oh boy. It's gonna get pretty lively

Unknown: But this is a way to look beyond

Unknown: What the River Forecast Center provides in terms of here's the precip we expect and the flows we expect

Unknown: This gives a little bit of what's on the horizon. I'm pretty excited to see this develop more

Unknown: Another thing we did recently and this is cool with the Bay Area

SPEAKER_10: Timbaria counties went in on a single integrated regional water management grant

Unknown: Saying Doppler radar network wasn't serving them and it wasn't because they have hills and their closest radar are Monterey and

SPEAKER_10: Davis and

Unknown: In between Monterey and Davis in the Bay Area are a lot of pretty good sized mountains. So

Unknown: Doesn't do so good for them. So we built a smaller radar has a smaller footprint X band gives more detail to

Unknown: Put one in South Bay

Unknown: one in the East Bay one on Sawyer Ridge on the peninsula and one up in Sonoma County and

Unknown: Then we got a bigger radar a C band radar coming in between the big Dopplers and these

SPEAKER_10: That we put in Marin County that can look offshore so they actually can have a little

SPEAKER_10: Forewarning of what's coming towards them

Unknown: It's very hard to get observations on the ocean of what's coming in. So this helps with that

SPEAKER_10: Some really cool products with those forecasts, but the great thing about this

Unknown: They're upstream

SPEAKER_10: Meteorologically from you. So this gives you some additional information coming in

SPEAKER_10: So really kind of a cool feature and not to be outdone our good friends at the Sacramento Area Flood Control Agency

Unknown: Are wanting to look at a watershed scale effort

Unknown: To help them with some of the challenges they face and really looking at

SPEAKER_10: These other initiatives that we've done both with Fero and with AQPI

Unknown: To see how would that work serving the American River watershed?

SPEAKER_10: So I've been meeting with them showing off some of the tools we've been developing and

SPEAKER_10: Seeing if this can help inform

Unknown: What we do, which is really kind of cool

SPEAKER_10: Including a public-private partnership. We've been doing over the past few years with a company called Earth Knowledge

Unknown: these are former USGS scientists who

Unknown: are taking a USGS model called the Basin Characterization Model and

SPEAKER_10: We're using it not only to look backwards at a monthly kind of what happened. Here's the state of the watershed

Unknown: We're trying to couple it to forecasting

SPEAKER_10: to look 10 days ahead

Unknown: What's the landscape doing when it suddenly hits a hundred degrees?

Unknown: How quickly is it drying out?

Unknown: What is it doing to what's left of the snowpack?

SPEAKER_10: Still experimental and still

SPEAKER_10: If we can find the funding about five years off

Unknown: but a potential tool that I think

Unknown: Can help not only water management, but broader resource management. So trying to find some partners in the state

Unknown: To help build that out

Unknown: All right. Just want to finish because you might have heard in the news

Unknown: about the potential super-alleluia

Unknown: So I want to talk about where we've been last this past year was La Nina

Unknown: La Nina tends to have that up and down circulation

SPEAKER_10: High pressure is really important because the high pressure says where the air is going north and

Unknown: The edge of it is where it comes down

Unknown: This year where it came down was over the Great Lakes

Unknown: So the Great Lakes in the Northeastern US had a cold snowy winter

Unknown: They had snow on the ground almost all winter in Boston and New York City. They were not happy

Unknown: They had gotten used to this notion that they didn't have to do as much snow removal

Unknown: So

Unknown: We called it a good old-fashioned winter for them

Unknown: On our end we're underneath a high pressure. Yeah, not so much happened a few storms snuck through but

Unknown: for the most part

SPEAKER_10: Siphon that long duration event around Christmas. We didn't have a whole lot

Unknown: Now what's coming right so the waters in the tropics warm

SPEAKER_10: increases the gradient from equator to pole

Unknown: While that flattens the jet stream it speeds it up much like a river on a steeper gradient. It'll just shoot downhill

Unknown: What that does is and how far south it gets pushed

Unknown: Which part of California gets wet

Unknown: And

Unknown: So we tend to think of these storms with the jet streams sped up storms click through quick hitters

Unknown: Timing pace and scale of those then build the impacts on what we get they tend to be warmer

Unknown: Because they aren't running up and getting cold air

Unknown: And

SPEAKER_10: While we can have a year like 1992 which was an only new year kind of a bummer year

Unknown: We had 1998. Oh my goodness a lot of stuff happening

SPEAKER_10: What we do know is the coast tends to take a little bit more of a beating

Unknown: With all that energy just coming straight off the Pacific onto the coast

SPEAKER_10: Tend to have a little more damage

SPEAKER_10: So those will be the things to kind of keep track of as we see how this develops a lot of hype now

SPEAKER_10: But there's still a lot of time to see how this actually manifests once we get back around to winter

Unknown: But there is a lot of warm water in the subsurface of the tropics

Unknown: Anyway one last little piece the other piece that hasn't been there when Noah developed their relationships that I just showed you

Unknown: marine heat anomalies

Unknown: These have been fun things right and if you think about the first thousand feet of water in the mid-pacific

SPEAKER_10: warming

Unknown: Five and a half six degrees Celsius that changes that gradient and so I just say talk to my colleagues

Unknown: Maybe we should think about what's different between now and the 80s. How would we study it?

Unknown: How do we use that to shape our expectations

SPEAKER_10: Saying 1983 is gonna happen again is probably wrong

Unknown: Because the rest of the world is not like 83 in terms of the climatic setting

Unknown: So

Unknown: Just in case you missed it. We're already seeing consequences of a warming world

SPEAKER_10: And I love this satellite shot of December

Unknown: Where the valley was fogged in

SPEAKER_10: But the Sierra Nevada was bright and clear and on this day it was 39 degrees here in Sacramento and 68 degrees in Yosemite Valley

Unknown: So

Unknown: Here's the thing and I think Owen gets to describe this. This is only the beginning. This is not the new normal

Unknown: It amplifies from here

Unknown: But this is key the right tools

Unknown: Forming the right actions communicated in the right way at the right time

Unknown: Can help us navigate this we can do it we can actually thrive

Unknown: But the key is to make sure we work with our partners

SPEAKER_10: Especially those folks that we can bring in that new knowledge and bring it online

SPEAKER_10: I will definitely enhance our opportunities for success. So thank you for your time

Unknown: Thank you, do we have any questions for dr. Anderson? Yes, go ahead

Unknown: First of all, thank you and thank you for the optimism. I think that's you know, that's that's good to hear

Unknown: My question is you know your three keys communication cooperation coordination

Unknown: How what grade would you give us and I mean us the the general

SPEAKER_05: population of

SPEAKER_05: Organizations and people that are concerned with these issues. How well are we doing right now in California? We're doing pretty good

Unknown: Probably in the C plus B minus category

Unknown: Which isn't bad, but there is room for improvement and there's more that can be done and I think more opportunity to leverage

Unknown: Which is why I feel hopeful is that we're doing okay

SPEAKER_10: But we there's room to do better and as we move into that space

Unknown: we can keep up with Mother Nature and so my follow-up question is as a

SPEAKER_05: Board of locally elected generally lay people when it comes to these issues. How can we help?

SPEAKER_05: Can we lobby Congress for more money for Noah? Yes

SPEAKER_05: Lobby the governor for more money for the Department of Water Resources those kinds of things those kind of things help. Yes without a doubt

Unknown: You know, I talked about what my friends at Noah could be doing and right now I kind of have to help them

Unknown: Well, let's make sure they still exist

SPEAKER_10: It arguments changed. Unfortunately about talking with the chief

SPEAKER_10: Scientist at Noah. He said I'm in a really odd place. My job is to bring science to the benefit of people

SPEAKER_10: But I'm also in the executive branch whose position it is is that this isn't needed

Unknown: Thank you

Unknown: Other questions

SPEAKER_13: Yes

SPEAKER_09: Discursion right we

SPEAKER_09: Say this I'm all gonna get it right typically with a lot of Nina you get I want to say colder

Unknown: Yes, better winter, right and now Nina is drier

Unknown: Typically that the tip of an instant that if I have that right

Unknown: It's a lot to take in. I

Unknown: Don't feel like in terms of my lay living my day-to-day life

SPEAKER_09: They say this but I never really noticed that

SPEAKER_09: Climatic variation over the preceding six months. I sort of will reno this the warm waters here this year

SPEAKER_09: But it doesn't how much that do you see an actual sort of correlation to that?

Unknown: So again, we live with wild variability, right El Nino can be

SPEAKER_10: Your five of a six-year drought or it can be one of the wettest years in history

SPEAKER_10: So really wet dry is hard to tell

Unknown: What we look for is during El Nino. We probably don't have too many frost warnings

Unknown: But during lining you if that cold air is leaking down from the north, that's when we get those cold December nights

SPEAKER_10: Especially after a storm in the sky is just beautifully clear and there's nothing to hold the heat in

Unknown: We can get a lot colder

Unknown: What I also point out is that we tend to see more on the coast

SPEAKER_10: So when you're watching the news and you're watching

SPEAKER_10: Storms batter the coast and coastal erosion and unfortunately some of the houses falling, you know down the cliffs

SPEAKER_10: You'll see more of that coverage this coming winter

SPEAKER_10: The other really challenging piece

Unknown: Is with El Nino and with the warm waters and currently there is some really warm water off the south coast of the state

SPEAKER_10: that changes the whole food web in the ocean and

SPEAKER_10: Unfortunately that creates really big challenges for a lot of the marine life

SPEAKER_10: So you're hearing maybe now about some pelicans that are just not finding food

Unknown: We'll also find sea lions and some of the mammals will struggle with that as we work through the year

SPEAKER_10: And that's because that warm water kind of caps

Unknown: The upwelling that usually happens on our coast

Unknown: The other problem with that is without that cold water coming up. Here's less coastal fog

Unknown: less coastal fog more heating

Unknown: greater energy demand for those folks that

Unknown: Normally get the benefit of a little bit of an umbrella from the Sun

Unknown: Do you see you talked about that weather regime tool and was the 16 the 16 different potential tools or

SPEAKER_09: What's the proper word? We call them weather regimes

Unknown: And so what it is is the group here went through

SPEAKER_10: Reanalysis data which is a computer model recreation of the past 50 years of weather data and it's a whole atmosphere of

SPEAKER_10: information and they took

Unknown: What are called geo potential height patterns that kind of control where the winds blow and

SPEAKER_10: They came up with what they identify as a 16 principal patterns

SPEAKER_10: and so they took every day and they mapped it to one of these and

Unknown: They built their history and that's what provides kind of your expectations in terms of where it rains and where it doesn't

SPEAKER_10: Then

Unknown: They look at the forecast model of that same field and say which one is it and

Unknown: That then is informing what kind of the big picture expectation should be

Unknown: Do you think this will change is this going to change or changing how forecasting works?

SPEAKER_09: I think it'll help us get out to where we get more reliable week two information

SPEAKER_10: And can actually give us a sense in week three and four

SPEAKER_10: Not exactly what's going to happen, but we can actually start to pay attention to how things are changing in that time frame

Unknown: which can help us either say oh look relief might be starting to take shape or

Unknown: We shift from well, we're wet, but it's really going to dry out. So I think those kind of things learning how to use the information

Unknown: Is where we're going to be at over the next decade

SPEAKER_09: No, you look at a forecast the models always want to return things to normal. So

SPEAKER_09: You go to the 10-day forecast or 14 days. Oh, it's gonna be dry even though you know, we're in a wet pattern, right?

SPEAKER_09: So it this is again. So you you look at what the models are

SPEAKER_10: Saying you look at the observations and we look and see where you have

SPEAKER_10: Agreement and where you have disconnects. So it's not just taking the model output and saying

Unknown: This is the forecast you still have that human in the loop looking at it and saying does this make sense?

SPEAKER_10: Do we have a coherent?

SPEAKER_10: Forecast that we can present to folks and give them the right expectations

Unknown: Um, so then would that mean that they're not going to get the right expectations, I mean

SPEAKER_13: What what I'm hearing you say is that

Unknown: This is the way things are right now, but hey if we all

SPEAKER_13: Cooperate and work together we can get through this tough time

Unknown: but

Unknown: Isn't I mean this is now

Unknown: when you project out with the fact that we're building less renewables that

SPEAKER_13: There isn't a focus like there used to be on

SPEAKER_13: combat and climate change. I

Unknown: Mean, don't you think that we're that's a significant disruption. Yeah. Okay. Yes

SPEAKER_13: Okay, but that's why I said we're lucky to be in, California

SPEAKER_10: Because we're still in a place that still says I see what's happening. Mm-hmm

SPEAKER_13: I say and we're willing to be now. It's great when you have your federal partner on board with you

Unknown: It's a lot easier to do

Unknown: But I think it's important that as a state we still focus on what's important to us and

SPEAKER_10: Try and leverage the fact that we are one of the larger economies in the world. Mm-hmm

SPEAKER_13: That doesn't make sense. But what is scary to me is the fact is this is the way it is now and

SPEAKER_13: When you start projecting into the future with the actions that are being taken now

SPEAKER_13: It becomes even more critical that we pay attention to how we're living on this planet. Yes

SPEAKER_10: I fully agree. Well, thank you very much. Anybody else have any

Unknown: Final questions? No. Thank you very much. We really

SPEAKER_13: appreciated your

SPEAKER_13: Presentation dr. Anderson. Thank you

Unknown: Hi and good evening. My name is Owen Doherty

SPEAKER_07: I'm a climate scientist here in Sacramento with Eagle Rock analytics and as Josh mentioned smud sponsored a

SPEAKER_07: Assessment of its overall climate vulnerability to a number of climate hazards and today I'll be speaking

SPEAKER_07: just a little bit about

SPEAKER_07: Changes in the hydrological conditions in the upper American River that came out of that study

SPEAKER_07: which is much broader than what I'm presenting today and

SPEAKER_07: I won't I won't wait till the end to tell you what the key takeaways from from that work was

SPEAKER_07: You know our top finding is

SPEAKER_07: Please expect changes in when precipitation is occurring in the you are

SPEAKER_07: We're gonna see shifts in the seasonality of when the rain and snow is coming a little bit

SPEAKER_07: Our study found that it doesn't seem like there's gonna be a big change in the number of days in which

SPEAKER_07: precipitation is occurring

SPEAKER_07: But the amount of precipitation that occurs is likely to change

SPEAKER_07: consistent with what dr. Anderson showed

SPEAKER_07: Snowpack has been reduced and we expect further reductions towards mid and end of century and

SPEAKER_07: What we found was that the lowest elevations of the u-r we're gonna see the largest

SPEAKER_07: Decline and the upper elevations would be a little more resilient and lose a little bit less snowfall

SPEAKER_07: And that reduction in snowfall doesn't happen equally across the whole season

SPEAKER_07: We're seeing that in the fall very large declines in in this total snow

SPEAKER_07: That's gonna come winter decreases a little bit and then the spring decreases a little bit

SPEAKER_07: Suggesting we might have a much narrower period of snowpack

SPEAKER_07: Even if there are you know some peaks and valleys within it. So that's I guess I can stop there. Thank you

SPEAKER_07: No, I'll share the details. I'll keep it as light as I can but that's that's the key key thing. So

SPEAKER_07: this study took

SPEAKER_07: output from California's fifth climate change assessment as dr. Anderson

SPEAKER_07: Introduced California is producing quite a bit of climate data

SPEAKER_07: The state is updated their their climate projections and smud is the was the first utility in the state to utilize it as far as I'm aware

SPEAKER_07: The figure on the left shows the model coverage and the figure on the right is our study domain

SPEAKER_07: which includes not only the service territory, but

SPEAKER_07: Areas where smud is key assets and the u-r is there and with our older little basins in the light red squiggles

SPEAKER_07: Just give you a sense of the type of information we have

SPEAKER_07: In this presentation, I'm going to show you two types of

SPEAKER_07: regimes some climate models are predicting a much wetter future and some suggest a

SPEAKER_07: Drier future and that's because California's hydro climate has a lot of variability

SPEAKER_07: It goes from wet to dry and the climate change signal on top of that can nudge it in certain directions

SPEAKER_07: But we still do see the wet and dry futures as possibilities

SPEAKER_07: and

Unknown: To help ground this work

SPEAKER_07: I wanted to to mention a little bit about how how we looked into the future and what we kind of compared it to

SPEAKER_07: Trying to keep this work consistent with what the UN is doing at the IPCC

SPEAKER_07: And what our most recent national climate assessment did along with CPU sees guidance for sort of best practices of climate science and energy planning

SPEAKER_07: We took a global warming level framework approach it tries to get away from

Unknown: These pathways of how much you know coal is

SPEAKER_07: Kenya burning how much solar is China installing its away from those pathways and instead

SPEAKER_07: Focuses on what will the climate be when the whole earth is two degrees warmer?

SPEAKER_07: What will the climate be when it's a one and a half degrees warmer and in this study?

SPEAKER_07: We consider the historical baseline sort of our past when the infrastructure was built to occur at about point eight degrees Celsius of warming

SPEAKER_07: And that happened that's that was most likely happening at 2002

SPEAKER_07: Then we this you'll see a lot of figures that refer the next ten years and that refers to a world

SPEAKER_07: Which is 1.5 degrees warmer, which we think will that threshold be crossed about?

SPEAKER_07: 2030 2031 and then the last little bit of comparison we did was looking at the middle of the century

SPEAKER_07: Which is about two degrees of warming and we think that'll happen

SPEAKER_07: Somewhere around 2047, but you could think about it 2050 really so that's sort of the basis for this study

SPEAKER_07: And also lots of figures that refer to the next ten years and mid-century

SPEAKER_07: And these are the time points that I'm sort of referring to as we go along so our first finding changes in the seasonality of precipitation

Unknown: Again, we're going to show figures that have on the left side the wet futures and on the right side the dry futures

Unknown: The reason why we thought it would be helpful to look at wet and dry futures side by side was for a utility company

Unknown: Planning for the future you hear things like well

SPEAKER_07: It could be what or it could be drier and it's very difficult to make decisions different difficult to push forward

SPEAKER_07: But if we look at a wet future and a dry future and the changes that we are seeing the trends that we're seeing are the

SPEAKER_07: Same direction and the same type of shift we can be really confident that that's a change that's gonna happen and be impactful

SPEAKER_07: And then when they diverge when you know the wet is going

SPEAKER_07: I'm sorry

SPEAKER_05: I just wanna be sure I'm

SPEAKER_05: Orienting myself correctly with the map that you've got up there now the the circled area that it's on both of those maps

Unknown: The the blue that's just to the right of that that's that's Tahoe that's Lake Tahoe. Yes, that's right

SPEAKER_07: That's like and then and then the the the water at the very far bottom left corner is at San Francisco Bay

SPEAKER_05: That's right. Yeah. Okay, you got it. You're oriented. I needed to scale

SPEAKER_07: Thank you. So yeah, we're looking from Lake Tahoe to the Bay and from just north of Stockton up to

SPEAKER_07: I don't know Yuba City or so

SPEAKER_07: Maybe a little further north

SPEAKER_07: And the circled area the circles area is the area where we saw the largest change in

SPEAKER_07: precipitation and that corresponds with the highest elevations of the you are so that's where we see the

SPEAKER_07: The biggest the biggest chance both in absolute as I'm showing here and on a percentage basis

SPEAKER_07: So, you know on the wet models, we do see a greening, you know more precipitation generally

SPEAKER_07: But it's focused on those higher elevations and in the drying

SPEAKER_07: It's sort of the same thing a general drying with the largest decrease happening at high elevation

Unknown: So

SPEAKER_07: A lot of times we like to break down sort of these large annual average things into seasons

SPEAKER_07: So you understand sort of when the changes are coming?

SPEAKER_07: Here we made the complex these figures are even more complicated to

SPEAKER_07: struggle with understanding late at night

SPEAKER_07: but the figures show from the top left winter to

SPEAKER_07: Then right spring then down to fall and then over to summer

SPEAKER_07: So you can see in the wet models that during the winter time we're seeing a big

Unknown: Increase in precipitation in the center of the wet season

SPEAKER_07: So in December January and February and then in the spring and in the summer saying in the fall even in the wet miles

SPEAKER_07: We're not really seeing a big increase in precipitation a little bit

SPEAKER_07: Whereas with the dry models you'll see a drying that's that's spread across all the seasons relatively equally

SPEAKER_07: So this is a example where you know our models are looking at different regimes

SPEAKER_07: But showing you know very different insight that if we're in a drier future

SPEAKER_07: It's gonna be spread over the a lot of the season rather than just focused on the center of the winter

SPEAKER_07: Like our increases in precipitation would be so key impacts coming from this is again

SPEAKER_07: There's lots of future outcomes

SPEAKER_07: We we can learn things despite the fact that there's some variability in the the wetter future

SPEAKER_07: We're looking at the peak increase in winter and then for the drier future that drying spread out now

SPEAKER_07: I will say this precipitation

SPEAKER_07: Analysis I'm showing here includes both snow and rain and kind of mixed together

SPEAKER_07: We'll tease out the snow in a couple minutes so you can focus it on that separately

SPEAKER_07: Another key finding is that the changes in extreme precipitation

SPEAKER_07: So heavy precipitation are driving a lot of the overall changes that we see

SPEAKER_07: And to understand that we wanted to look at the number of days in which precipitation was happening

Unknown: In our wet model we see by mid-century an increase in the number of rainy days of

SPEAKER_07: Over most of the Sacramento area about zero to one day

SPEAKER_07: It's not a lot in the you are up you're seeing two to three more days with precipitation

SPEAKER_07: And in the dry models we're seeing a decrease of zero to one days

SPEAKER_07: And then the you are maybe one or two days with less precipitation and that's telling us yeah

SPEAKER_07: There's some slight changes here, but really the number of storm events that are expected aren't

Unknown: Changing that much, but the total amount of rainfall that's coming out of them is

SPEAKER_07: Which is a very interesting finding

SPEAKER_07: If we look at extreme precipitation trying to find

SPEAKER_07: Precipitation events in which the rates were were quite high

SPEAKER_07: Relative to an average storm we see in the wet models

SPEAKER_07: We see again this this pattern that the upper elevations of the you are we're seeing a increase in the number of heavy rain days

SPEAKER_07: And then in the dry we're seeing a big decrease in the number of dry days

SPEAKER_07: Occurring up there, so

Unknown: maybe the number of storms that are coming are changing, but it's these really these heavy heavy rain heavy snow days where we might see

SPEAKER_07: Shifts and we might see new patterns emerging

SPEAKER_07: so key impacts

SPEAKER_07: The overall change in number of precipitating days is modest we we are expecting a similar number of storms

SPEAKER_07: It might be that the types of storms that come in change in a wet regime

SPEAKER_07: We're going to have bigger wetter atmospheric rivers

SPEAKER_07: Typically those are associated with high wind in the Sacramento area and are damaging to infrastructure in the drier future

SPEAKER_07: We may see the same number of storms, but storms that feature less heavy rain and snow events

SPEAKER_07: And these changes in extremes are really driving whatever changes we see in the average values

Unknown: Snowfall everyone's most favorite topic

SPEAKER_07: in

Unknown: the Upper American River

SPEAKER_07: The change in snowfall really depends on where you are

SPEAKER_07: In the Sierra so in the foothills this is this is showing the percent change

SPEAKER_07: Just a couple models

SPEAKER_07: This is again by mid century so in the foothills. We're seeing big reductions in

SPEAKER_07: Annual average snow accumulation, but as you get higher up

SPEAKER_07: Those reductions decrease and in some cases maybe at the highest peaks. We'd see a little bit more snow

SPEAKER_07: Sent to occur in the the water models

Unknown: The question often comes up, you know, when should we start expecting these changes to come in and they already have

SPEAKER_07: Really, we're already seeing warmer winters with

SPEAKER_07: less snow and earlier

SPEAKER_07: snowmelt

SPEAKER_07: The bottom left figure shows the change we're expecting in the next 10 years relative to the past

SPEAKER_07: And so you're seeing a decrease in the foothills of maybe about 20% of the annual snowfall

SPEAKER_07: But at high elevations, that's a lot lower

SPEAKER_07: If you fast forward to mid century and we're expecting about two degrees of warming by then

SPEAKER_07: We're looking at very large reductions in annual snowfall even extending up into the higher elevations in excess of you know

SPEAKER_07: decreases of 40% in the foothills and

SPEAKER_07: near Placerville

SPEAKER_07: We

SPEAKER_07: Redid the analysis instead breaking it down by specific reservoir in the urp to try to give a little bit more information

SPEAKER_07: And the results are really consistent with what I said earlier

SPEAKER_07: You know, if you look at a low elevation reservoir like the chyli bar

SPEAKER_07: You see big reductions if you look at the higher elevation reservoirs like Buck Island or Loom Lake

SPEAKER_07: You're seeing much much reduced losses in snowfall. So again, the elevation is driving it

Unknown: This is a really complicated figure and I'm sorry for presenting it at 7 o'clock at night, but

SPEAKER_07: It tells a great story. So again here

SPEAKER_07: we're looking at different reservoirs within the urp the bottom panel is showing the fall season and

SPEAKER_07: I just draw your attention to that that in both wet and dry regimes

SPEAKER_07: We're seeing major declines in our fall

SPEAKER_07: snowfall

SPEAKER_07: If you move up a little bit and I were looking at spraying we're seeing some sizable decreases and then you move into winter

SPEAKER_07: We saw our smallest decreases in snowfall

SPEAKER_07: So we're really losing the snowfalls on what's called the shoulder season the edge

SPEAKER_07: the early onset of the season and the late and so that would suggest a much shorter time period the year where we have a

SPEAKER_07: robust snow snowpack

Unknown: Bringing it all together

Unknown: You know, we're seeing

SPEAKER_07: statistically significant

SPEAKER_07: projected

SPEAKER_07: declines in snowfall

SPEAKER_07: Across all of the urp regardless of wet and dry the largest difference is happening at your lower elevations

Unknown: Each reservoir system will see kind of differing amounts, but again based on elevation

Unknown: It's not a uniform reduction in the snowpack again. It's really this fall declines. That's that that is the largest

SPEAKER_07: And you could see a potential modest increase at the highest elevations

SPEAKER_07: But that's small relative

SPEAKER_07: To the overall change and also just in water volume up there

Unknown: So again, this was part of a much larger study

SPEAKER_07: I focused on the urp today because that's what I was asked to do

SPEAKER_07: I know there's some questions about wildfire also and smud transition transmission lines exposure to them

SPEAKER_07: Our study looked at changes in extreme heat and changes in wind and from that you can you can start to understand

SPEAKER_07: What the risks are. So if you imagine a forest system that's having earlier snow melt

SPEAKER_07: And a shorter snow cover season, it's gonna start drying out earlier

SPEAKER_07: The top row is telling us the the kind of changes in extreme heat that we'll be seeing

SPEAKER_07: I'll note that the largest temperature increases across

SPEAKER_07: Areas of interest are happening at the highest elevation the urp

SPEAKER_07: So this is an area where we're going to see the largest changes in moisture

Unknown: The largest increases in heat and that combination will lead to more wildfire

SPEAKER_07: risk

SPEAKER_07: unfortunately

SPEAKER_07: We don't see major changes in extreme wind which is fortunate for us

SPEAKER_07: Again wrapping things up when we think about the urp

SPEAKER_07: There's gonna be changes in when precipitation occurs the number of days with precipitation

SPEAKER_07: We expect to remain the same but the amount of precipitation will likely change

Unknown: snowpack will be reduced and that's amplified at the lowest elevations and

SPEAKER_07: This combination of increasing heat and decreases in precipitation are gonna increase

SPEAKER_07: Wildfire risk and that's all I've got actually I've got a lot more. I just wanted to spare you

SPEAKER_07: Well, thank you, dr. Dole for tea anybody have any questions? Yes, director Brandon when you were looking at some of the

SPEAKER_09: Related the wildfire as you look at any like forest moisture levels, which are sort of precursors to fire the large wildfires

SPEAKER_09: Yes

SPEAKER_07: We did not in this study do this

SPEAKER_07: But the most recent chapter of California's fifth climate change assessment is looking at that in the Sierra and they are

SPEAKER_07: projecting large declines in

SPEAKER_07: vegetated

SPEAKER_07: moisture and also soil moisture

SPEAKER_07: Particularly looking into May and if I remember like October November where areas where they saw big big reductions a

Unknown: Little bit curious

SPEAKER_09: Any commoner we actually look at our stuff because it's us

SPEAKER_09: Does this pattern follow across the entire Sierras?

SPEAKER_09: Are there parts of the Sierras that that were not sort of in tools are the same as this and and then did you see any?

SPEAKER_09: Variability relative like the Mojave Desert where there's so much solar being developed. That's a that's a really really good question

Unknown: There was a paper that came out just a week ago that looked at changes in different

SPEAKER_07: basins up and down the Sierra

SPEAKER_07: The northern and central Sierra behaved very differently than the southern Sierra

SPEAKER_07: So you would see differences if you looked at the southern end versus areas to the north

SPEAKER_07: I'm I couldn't really speak to the details of it, but I know you would have to look differently from where you are

SPEAKER_07: in terms of

SPEAKER_07: changes in solar

SPEAKER_07: production

SPEAKER_07: The CEC did sponsor some research which took these same models and ran them through energy production models generation potential

SPEAKER_07: Looking at changes in wind and solar and I do not believe there were appreciable changes in the Mojave

SPEAKER_07: but there were my understanding is

SPEAKER_07: increases in

SPEAKER_07: extreme heat periods coincident with low wind production

SPEAKER_07: Through the the passes which I couldn't name off the top of my head

SPEAKER_07: But I know from driving around there that you go between the desert basins. There are those large wind installations

SPEAKER_07: So there could be some secondary effects even if the solar production doesn't change

SPEAKER_07: Any other questions? Yes, director Fishman. I

SPEAKER_13: Think part of what I'm hearing is that on any given year. We're gonna see some pretty wild swings and

Unknown: To some degree the effects of those swings are compounding right so if you have a big snowpack

Unknown: It I mean it's gonna last longer not only because there's more snow

SPEAKER_05: but because it has its own kind of insulating and refrigeration effect and conversely when you have a dry year less snow it

SPEAKER_05: dissipates very quickly less runoff because it's soaking into the ground instead of running off and and so

Unknown: The the in terms of our operations the way we run our power plants. We have to be able to manage those

Unknown: Those wild swings year to year. That's absolutely correct. Yes

SPEAKER_07: Unfortunately, well, thank you for the cheery presentation I

SPEAKER_13: Get that a lot. We do appreciate the study and having this information

Unknown: And then next I think Christine

Unknown: More question real quick. Sorry Christine

SPEAKER_09: So sort of as I was looking through the slides one of the things that I was curious about is what is normal today?

SPEAKER_09: Right because we have this wet regimes and these dry regimes the malls are showing if you've seen this variability, but

SPEAKER_09: things

SPEAKER_09: Looking past in my own life, which is from a climate perspective isn't that long, right?

SPEAKER_09: It's always been extremely variable that these relatively these are these I guess what's the question like are we seeing basing more?

SPEAKER_09: variability these you know zero to four days

SPEAKER_09: Per year versus what we've already been seeing that historical record. Is that what it's saying?

SPEAKER_07: Yeah, and to answer your question, you know in this study

SPEAKER_07: We chose a 30 year climatology window when we considered these these windows, which is traditional

SPEAKER_07: So you look over 30 so you do qualify as I mean a full climate suite behind you but

SPEAKER_07: The I mean to answer your question

SPEAKER_07: very the increase in variability is sort of the California water story and climate story is

SPEAKER_07: You know, yes, we have this underlying trend, but things are also shaking more around that that trend line

SPEAKER_07: And that's just a really hard thing for resource managers to handle

SPEAKER_07: Because you're not just dealing with a new climate regime, but one that flip-flops back and forth

SPEAKER_07: Sometimes somewhat violently. Thank you

Unknown: Hello, I'm Christine Giannini. I'm the manager of resource optimization and smud's energy trading contracts department

SPEAKER_01: And I feel like your last question really covers everything and I can just

Unknown: It really is on point for exactly what I am going to talk to you guys about which is smud's operations and

SPEAKER_01: How this variability and this climate shifting has been impacting us with a couple looks at some historical years

Unknown: Variability is something as we've all seen is inherent within our system

SPEAKER_01: It's something we've been experiencing for years and this graphic is a report that we love we do it every year

SPEAKER_01: And it's an accumulation of all of our historical data for cumulative precipitation at fresh pond each color

SPEAKER_01: coordinates to a water year and this is the last 60 years of data from

SPEAKER_01: 1965 up until the present and we have the current year even on there and it just shows how much variability we see in

SPEAKER_01: precipitation over our watershed

Unknown: Every single year and in all of history

SPEAKER_01: We have our driest year on there from 1977 and then up to the wettest year in

SPEAKER_01: 2017 so recently that I think we've made mention of in the other presentations

SPEAKER_01: But the really interesting thing about the graph and it shows that extreme variability that we keep talking about is that

SPEAKER_01: 2015 was a third dry year in a row

SPEAKER_01: So it was a critically dry year to smud and that bleep from 2015

SPEAKER_01: Two years later up to our wettest year on record that just highlights these extreme variability that we're seeing within our system

Unknown: So how do we manage that as a resource owner?

Unknown: There's really key dimensions to variability that we have to think about as we handle Hydra operations

SPEAKER_01: We're thinking of the four key dimensions of variability being inner annual variability

Unknown: intra annual variability the precipitation form variability and the system and constraint variability

Unknown: So first up we have inter annual variability and this is a look at how much water do we get each year?

SPEAKER_01: And as many of the highlight or many of the presentations have highlighted that amount can vary

Unknown: Greatly year-over-year and not just being great variations year-over-year. We're also experiencing

SPEAKER_01: An unknown so each year is kind of like a blank slate the past doesn't dictate the future in California

SPEAKER_01: So as we manage water throughout the year

SPEAKER_01: It's all about our storage levels and where are we sitting with what water we have in storage?

SPEAKER_01: Going into a new year. We have to ensure that that storage level is at a place where no matter what comes into our water

SPEAKER_01: system we're going to handle our system reliably and safely and so this graph shows the last 16 years of

Unknown: Total runoff into the ur

SPEAKER_01: But you can see how there's big swings up and down in those bars each bar represents a year's worth of total runoff and along

SPEAKER_01: The graph the yellow dots is where our end of water year

SPEAKER_01: So September 30th storage level was and there's a consistency we see in that end of water your storage level that just speaks to how

SPEAKER_01: operationally we handle this big variance and we set ourselves up with that blank slate going into the next year to be able to handle the

SPEAKER_01: system

Unknown: again reliably and really safely year-over-year and

Unknown: Then the next kind of variability that we're handling within the ur

SPEAKER_01: Is the intra annual variability and this digs into the water year in itself and not just the variability that we don't know how much

SPEAKER_01: Water we're getting that year

SPEAKER_01: But when are we going to get that water into our system and it and it can swing up and down even within the same type

SPEAKER_01: Of water year and that's where those extremes of atmospheric rivers and singular storms and then very dry months come into play

Unknown: So this graph for you and we pulled three recent below normal. So I think

Unknown: Director Rose asked about what is average?

SPEAKER_01: First most water said a lot of times we refer to a below normal water years. What might be average?

SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to look at three years that could be what we might say our average if we had such a thing within

Unknown: within water and

SPEAKER_01: hydrology

SPEAKER_01: but 2022 2024 and 2026 are each of those monthly bars of

SPEAKER_01: total runoff into some adds Europe

SPEAKER_01: You are and then the line going up the graph is our cumulative runoff throughout the water year

SPEAKER_01: And it's really interesting looking at 2022 October

SPEAKER_01: You can see just how varied it was that month alone from 2022

SPEAKER_01: You get this huge slug of water right into the system right away

SPEAKER_01: And then in this year 2026, it was minimal handleable

SPEAKER_01: There wasn't a ton of water coming in and we're making operational decisions around this variability we face and that's one of those short-term

SPEAKER_01: Forecasts they become very important understanding. Where should our storage levels be? What does the storm going to really impact?

SPEAKER_01: And so this is a variability that's driven a lot by those short-term forecasting

Unknown: and

Unknown: Then the precipitation form variability

SPEAKER_01: Which is the big conversation topic a lot about our snowpack and snowpack is pivotal to smud's hydro operations

SPEAKER_01: It's a great asset and what we might even consider our largest reservoir

SPEAKER_01: It sits there and it waits and it usually gives us a slow yield when it exists

SPEAKER_01: It can really swing how we operate our system based on how much snowpack we're actually getting for getting a high snowpack

SPEAKER_01: We have a lot of confidence heading into the summer and we have to really manage how our storage is set up

Unknown: Prior to that snowpack melt if we don't have a snowpack we have to think about how are we going to get into our summer?

SPEAKER_01: Operations, how are we going to ensure reliability through the heat we may face or any?

Unknown: Other system constraints come the summer months, you know

SPEAKER_01: It's when our peak hits us and we want to ensure we have the strength of the hydro system behind us when we head into

SPEAKER_01: Those summer months, so there's a graphic here. That's really cool

SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of a case study on what's happening this year

SPEAKER_01: Which is a very interesting year and a very variable year highlighting just how much that climate shifting is affecting variability on the top graph

SPEAKER_01: We have our storage reservoir levels for the water year along with the capacity of the Europe storage

SPEAKER_01: Which is the yellow line it shifts based on winter capacity ratings and summer capacity ratings

SPEAKER_01: We have some dam safety certification that reduces capacity through the winter months where we open gates

SPEAKER_01: And then the gates are closed again on April 2nd to allow for more storage

Unknown: along that same graph we have the cumulative runoff into storage for our reservoirs and

Unknown: Run off into all of the reservoirs not just the storage and then the graph underneath is our snowpack levels

SPEAKER_01: I chose three years this time because I wanted to really illustrate what's happening in 2026

SPEAKER_01: There's a wet year in 2023 a below normal year in

SPEAKER_01: 2024 and then our current year which is also classified as a below normal year right now on the orange line

SPEAKER_01: So that green line of 2023 a wet year when we look at all three graphs

SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of consistency between 2026 and 2023 as a wet year up until we hit snowpack

Unknown: so our runoff into the reservoirs were very similar between the wet year and

SPEAKER_01: This year below normal and then our just runoff into the system as a whole was also very similar

SPEAKER_01: You can see that orange line tracked with the green white year

SPEAKER_01: And then we came into our snowpack graph, and it is just dismal

SPEAKER_01: Comparative we have what would be considered really a critically dry snowpack

SPEAKER_01: And and you can see as the cumulative runoff matches to the wet year

SPEAKER_01: We're really gonna hit a plateau and these next few months

SPEAKER_01: We've already lost all of our snowpack the only snowpack remaining is at that high elevation

SPEAKER_01: And it's really just a dot and sitting just barely on our snow sensor. There's not really anything else around it

SPEAKER_01: So it just it is a great case study looking at this year of how that variability

SPEAKER_01: Impacts how we operate and the really interesting thing about this year is how much planning

Unknown: Went into that snow melt in early March

SPEAKER_01: And we had to look at our storage reservoir levels and we planned ahead and we stored that water

SPEAKER_01: Knowing we would have to hit those summer months and you can see that orange line

SPEAKER_01: Deviated from the green and we had to put a more into storage right at the top there and hold it longer

Unknown: Because we weren't sure of those longer-term forecasts and how much would show up in April

SPEAKER_01: And I know someone mentioned Miracle March and we always joy joke in our group

SPEAKER_01: Are we gonna get a Miracle March maybe an awesome April? It seems like a lot more we start wishing for the awesome April

SPEAKER_01: Because we don't experience as much of the Miracle March anymore

SPEAKER_01: And so that variability is something that really comes into

SPEAKER_01: managing that form of precipitation and

Unknown: then the fourth key dimension that we're facing in hydro operations is

SPEAKER_01: System and constraint variability and this is really a backbone of variability within hydro operations. This happens regardless of

Unknown: What's happening with the hydrology? It's not just a single

SPEAKER_01: Objective, but it's all of these system limitations playing together

Unknown: To determine how we're going to have variability within the system. That's outages that might happen

SPEAKER_01: It's our first license requirements and how they adjust based on water your type

SPEAKER_01: It's safety considerations for the environment in the community as we provide recreation and it's the physical limitations

SPEAKER_01: we have canals and we have tunnels and we have storage gates and we have spillways and all of that has to be considered on

SPEAKER_01: top of the fact that the climatology is shifting and

Unknown: So our hydro system already is experiencing a great deal of variability and we are finding ways to manage around that variability and to deal with

SPEAKER_01: these extreme

Unknown: extreme movements we're seeing and the bounds being pushed by the climate shifting

Unknown: The operations that we thought were just variable in the past are being pushed beyond the variability that we were used to seeing and

Unknown: They're singular events. They're intra

SPEAKER_01: intra-annual inter-annual all of the variability we've come to handle it brings new complexities new risks

SPEAKER_01: but we remain flexible and we continue to operate the system in such a way that we can ensure reliability and

SPEAKER_01: constant

Unknown: And that's all I have if anyone has any question, okay any questions

Unknown: Yes director fishman

Unknown: Thank you. This is also

Unknown: You know a relatively optimistic kind of said, okay

SPEAKER_05: Yes, it's the things are going crazy, but we know they're going crazy and we can manage that because my question and I

Unknown: For Paul and other senior staff here. Do we need to rethink the way that we manage our rate stabilization funds based on this

SPEAKER_05: extreme

SPEAKER_05: Circumstances that we're saying and and you know, it's based on precipitation, but that that isn't necessarily

Unknown: That's the right number to look at if we're talking about how it how it affects our operations and

SPEAKER_05: and I'm wondering do we do we need to to rethink the way we

Unknown: When how we put money into the rate stabilization fund when I we take money out

Unknown: Yep. So this is something that we actually look at. We always look at really how much will these

SPEAKER_08: Generation hydro generation that we can actually expect from our you know from our reservoirs, right?

SPEAKER_08: Because each drop water runs through the multiple reservoirs

SPEAKER_08: So we always actually do a forecast in terms of based on the precipitation that we have

SPEAKER_08: Based on the snowpack that we have and the reservoir level coming into the year

SPEAKER_08: Then we actually look at all those and say well this look like it's gonna be a normal year or

SPEAKER_08: As far as about changing the rate stabilization fund a hydro space legislation fund

SPEAKER_08: we always actually calculating that if you remember how we actually just adjusted our commodity because the

SPEAKER_08: Volatility of the market has changed so much and we're recommended to the board that we need to change it to increase it

SPEAKER_08: so when the time comes that when we actually see the changes is sustained and

SPEAKER_08: We need to go ahead and change the level of funding that we put into it

SPEAKER_08: We'll probably go back to the board

SPEAKER_08: but right now she said it was really interesting right now is that the number of days of

SPEAKER_08: Presentations not changing and even if you look at the numbers the number of the inches that we have is not changing out much

SPEAKER_08: but the promise is that

Unknown: when it comes in and then does have do you have any snowpack coming in behind that because you can have the number of

SPEAKER_08: Inches of rain but and if you have a huge snowpack and you see in a couple of those examples

SPEAKER_08: So that's really what we're trying to look at right now is that when you combine?

SPEAKER_08: The inches of rain that you get and there's no pack the feet of that you have and and when did it last?

SPEAKER_08: Yeah, did it come in right during the winter and then all sudden by March?

SPEAKER_08: They're all gone because it doesn't last right that's what we're looking at

SPEAKER_08: So the team is actually constantly looking at that to see we need to adjust the dollar amount that we have on there

SPEAKER_08: Okay. Thank you

Unknown: Well Christina I I want to say that I am very

SPEAKER_13: Glad that we have so many people watching this because it is pretty complex

SPEAKER_13: But I wanted to ask a little bit about

SPEAKER_13: Are you our system like how long do you think that will?

SPEAKER_13: Continue to function as an asset for smud

Unknown: I'm gonna have to defer that question. I think that would be a Josh. Yeah

SPEAKER_13: We brought them out

SPEAKER_02: It's actually a great segue, you know, our FERC license goes out to 2064

SPEAKER_04: Generally when you think of hydro assets or hundred-year assets, you know 2064

SPEAKER_04: Puts us at right about a hundred hundred two for our oldest

SPEAKER_04: Hydro assets, so that's what we're planning to today, right? It's well beyond our 2030 plan. It's really a foundational

SPEAKER_04: Energy supply asset will continue to leverage into the future

SPEAKER_04: And this is why this work in these endeavors that we do in terms of long-term planning and forecasting are so critical

SPEAKER_04: Especially to our hydro assets

Unknown: Go ahead director. Yes. Yeah, I

SPEAKER_09: Wrote this up down before it just came out of your mouth. I was gonna ask

SPEAKER_09: One how do we see in terms of lower?

SPEAKER_09: Acre acre feet in like Union Valley

SPEAKER_09: I don't know Loon Lake up on my head, but but we rarely see Union Valley below we never see below 50% of its capacity

SPEAKER_09: I

Unknown: Guess I'd be curious to get into my head better. What's that sensitivity analysis before?

SPEAKER_09: Hey the reservoir is gonna start dropping below these certain thresholds that we historically see and

Unknown: How does that then interact with our FERC licenses and does our FERC license?

SPEAKER_09: adequately

SPEAKER_09: Allow us to operate in a highly climatically variable environment

Unknown: Yeah, no great question. So, you know as Christine highlighted, you know as we've seen that variability year in year out

SPEAKER_04: Really what was constant is at the end of our water year, right?

SPEAKER_04: That reservoir level and really managing to the unknown of what the next year has in store for us

SPEAKER_04: So it's really I would say those continued diligence and really best practice to manage our reservoir levels

SPEAKER_04: But but to your point within our FERC license today one of the bullets on here talks about

SPEAKER_04: reservoir management

SPEAKER_04: abnormal

SPEAKER_04: precipitation patterns and that really gives us a flexibility to manage our reservoir levels today with our

SPEAKER_04: Existing FERC license to be able to manage that reservoir level and we do see these abnormally low seasons

SPEAKER_04: And so as we talk about flexibility we talk about right the takeaway tonight is more extreme variability, right?

SPEAKER_04: We could all appreciate that but as we talk about how do we mitigate that it's with more extreme

SPEAKER_04: Right flexibility and in terms of our units in terms of our FERC license in terms of our reservoir and the capacity there

SPEAKER_04: So as we look at long term, these are quite frankly items. We are very focused on right?

SPEAKER_04: So it's not only the dry years but it's also the extremely wet years and how we manage that risk from a dam safety perspective

SPEAKER_04: So today we're looking at feasibility studies to potentially even elevate the the level of our reservoir Union Valley

SPEAKER_04: To have additional capacity

SPEAKER_04: So that's one mechanism that helps us with the low snowpack years to actually accumulate more of that in a shorter

SPEAKER_04: Window and preserve that for the summer months

SPEAKER_04: You know I was talking to director Fishman a little bit before the meeting today even looking at the future

SPEAKER_04: We see our winter peaking growing faster than our summer peaking

SPEAKER_04: So as we look out over the next coming decades

SPEAKER_04: Perhaps even the way we utilize our you are peanuts and the time at when we generate might shift to the winter months where we

SPEAKER_04: See more of that inflow

SPEAKER_04: So there might be some tell ones there that actually align with the way we would operate these units in the future

SPEAKER_04: So, you know as I talked about even managing, you know heavy wet years

SPEAKER_04: How do we also look at it from a dam safety perspective and we look at forecast informed reservoir operations?

SPEAKER_04: Were we have higher confidence in shorter forecast windows?

SPEAKER_04: We can make informed decisions in the short term either to release more water or to hold more water in our reservoir

SPEAKER_04: You know, we're looking at strategic partnerships to potentially install additional tunnels at Union Valley. This would allow us in very

SPEAKER_04: you know short amount of time to actually

SPEAKER_04: Remove more water from the reservoir if we see, you know from a forecast perspective a very significant rain event happening or perhaps

SPEAKER_04: You know pun intended a perfect storm where we have a decent snowpack and we see an extreme quick

SPEAKER_04: Warming weather and then water on the horizon where we might get an extreme inflow into our reservoirs. How do we manage that?

SPEAKER_04: So it's with additional tunnels. We're looking at some of those projects. We're looking at an additional powerhouse

SPEAKER_04: To leverage that energy if we do install that again, these are long terms, you know beyond a decade, but we're studying these now

SPEAKER_04: The other component to to manage kind of this these low water years is pumpback storage, right?

SPEAKER_04: That's been something smut has evaluated in the past

SPEAKER_04: We continue to look at projects like that that may provide benefit in the future as we see more of these extreme

SPEAKER_04: Variabilities so we continue to kind of look at all of these type of projects again to increase

SPEAKER_04: Flexibility and to manage this fair ability better into the future. I

SPEAKER_04: Think one of the other key themes is you know

SPEAKER_04: Partnerships right as we think about partnerships. How do we continue to?

SPEAKER_04: Not only fund but support higher fidelity models that we have higher confidence in that we can make decisions in the short term

SPEAKER_04: To again either hold water back or to release water and to generate at different parts of our annual season

SPEAKER_04: So that's a critical component. But in addition, you know as we continue this is plan execute measure correct these endeavors continue

SPEAKER_04: They never really end. So as we continue to look at the future, you know

SPEAKER_04: Some additional research research questions and opportunities we continue to look at tonight

SPEAKER_04: We talked a lot about the forecast

SPEAKER_04: Informed reservoir operations will continue to look at those opportunities and how we might leverage those in the future as we become more

SPEAKER_04: Confident in some of the short-term weather forecasts and models

SPEAKER_04: Again with these extreme storms as we talk about, you know

SPEAKER_04: Generally speaking one of the largest risks to all utilities in the West is wildfire risk

SPEAKER_04: So as we continue to look at warming temperatures and in in and around the you are what that does to the energy release

SPEAKER_04: Component of the fuel we talked about drying fuel that increases risk of wildfire

SPEAKER_04: Continue to look at our practices around veg management. We do an excellent job today, but as conditions continue to change

SPEAKER_04: What might those changes in our practices be in the future?

SPEAKER_04: But as we think about general warming around our you are right even looking at from the perspective of what could be the impact to

SPEAKER_04: Just the vegetation what could be the impact to the natural carbon sequestration we have there

SPEAKER_04: What could be the impact of water storage and runoff and how quickly that occurs?

SPEAKER_04: So these are our items were continuing to look at and I think as we think about kind of the weather community the forecasting community

SPEAKER_04: also continuing to look at

SPEAKER_04: Advancements and best available technology in terms of weather modeling in terms of instrumentation in and around our Europe you are facets

SPEAKER_04: We have quite a bit today

SPEAKER_04: But as we look at the future are there better instruments are there different types or different locations where we can monitor to get

SPEAKER_04: Higher fidelity input into you know our future forecast

SPEAKER_04: So I think I'll in there by just congratulating and thanking the team again. This is

SPEAKER_04: Really an endeavor that continues every year

SPEAKER_04: Appreciate the collaboration with our industry partners and experts and sharing their knowledge tonight

SPEAKER_04: And happy to answer any any questions if there are any

SPEAKER_04: Do we have any other?

Unknown: Press this word to doing a prediction in gigawatt hour production, and how it might decline

SPEAKER_09: But the building is going to be a huge

SPEAKER_09: range

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know I would just say today

SPEAKER_04: We we do see that variability even in the last five years. We've seen two and a half gigawatts

SPEAKER_04: We've seen as low as half a gigawatt

SPEAKER_04: So we see that extreme variability today and again a lot of that's to you know

SPEAKER_04: Manage our reservoir levels for the next season, but I think that's where the the hydro stabilization fund really

SPEAKER_04: You know supports how we manage that variability in terms of kind of that commercial side and commodity management

SPEAKER_04: But certainly you know that's something we continue to look at and how we would manage that variability

Unknown: Yes, go ahead director Fisher Josh one of the first major votes

SPEAKER_05: I had to take when I first got on the board was on Iowa Hill the pump storage

SPEAKER_05: Project and I suspect I suspect that that was probably the right decision from a financial standpoint to kill the project

Unknown: But from an operational standpoint it would be a pretty nice asset to have right now

Unknown: Yeah, I would concur with that right just in terms of talking about flexibility, right?

SPEAKER_04: It certainly provides additional flexibility to manage this variability and in that reason alone absolutely

Unknown: But it again it was I mean the cost was over a billion and and and going up and

SPEAKER_05: I'm you know, I mean even even given what we know now and based on this

Unknown: I'm not sure it would have penciled out but from an operational standpoint would have been pretty cool

SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and that's really kind of that next phase of our continued research

SPEAKER_04: Right is looking at the feasibility and really the payback of future pump storage kind of looking at the future environment

SPEAKER_04: What is that economic value and is it there to justify the investment?

Unknown: Well

Unknown: Thank you Josh and thank you to your team. Oh my gosh, there's another person. Yes

Unknown: quick question on

SPEAKER_03: Dredging I know several lakes to the north of the highway 80 have had some good success dredging the smaller lakes

SPEAKER_03: I'm just wondering if we're also considering something like that. Yeah, we absolutely are, you know, just

SPEAKER_04: Maybe I'll say some of the initial studies we've done doesn't show a huge benefit to dredging in terms of adding additional

SPEAKER_04: Capacity but we continue to look at those options into the future, right that changes as you develop more sediment in the reservoirs

SPEAKER_04: And we've also looked at you know, what are more economical and ecological ways

SPEAKER_04: We could actually use that material that we dredge to kind of support the local environment

SPEAKER_04: So we continue to look at those multi-benefit type of projects with dredging and we continue to look at it. Okay. No, thanks

SPEAKER_03: Just wanted to be sure and make sure we maintain the rights to the goal

Unknown: Thank You director kirth we do have a speaker on this item and

SPEAKER_13: So I would like to call David Wright up to the podium and just remind you

SPEAKER_13: To speak into to speak into the microphone, but don't touch it

SPEAKER_13: and we need for you to state your name for the record and

Unknown: There you go welcome

Unknown: Thank You director Herbert and the rest of the committee and the members of the board

Unknown: And thank dr. Aniston and dr. Daugherty and

Unknown: Ms. Gianini for the wonderful presentations

SPEAKER_06: I

SPEAKER_06: I think

Unknown: Maybe they buried the lead though

SPEAKER_06: Because it seems to me that the bottom line here is that on average

SPEAKER_06: Smud will not be able to produce as much hydropower

Unknown: Over the coming years as it has in the past

Unknown: because

SPEAKER_06: You're losing that snowpack reservoir

Unknown: As Gianini said snowpack is pivotal it is our largest reservoir

Unknown: so without that snowpack reservoir all you

SPEAKER_06: Most of what you're getting is rainfall

Unknown: You have to be careful about extreme rainfall events

SPEAKER_06: I think most of your public doesn't realize this but dams are not in California are not really big enough

Unknown: To hold all the water that can come down the the water shed in an extreme rainfall event

SPEAKER_06: So you have the risk of overtopping a dam, you know more waters coming in that goes out. So

SPEAKER_06: We don't want another Oroville

Unknown: You have to err on the side of safety and that restricts the amount that you can use rainfall

Unknown: And storage so

SPEAKER_06: Smud is going to need more flexibility to adjust to

Unknown: It what should become increasingly precise and accurate storm

SPEAKER_06: Temperature rain and snow forecasts. I think our models of weather are getting better and better

SPEAKER_06: And so if there are ways that Smud can adjust

SPEAKER_06: quickly to those

SPEAKER_06: Forecasts that will be useful in in saving as much rainfall as possible

Unknown: But on average I think that and I'd love to hear differently

SPEAKER_06: But I think that Smud will have to plan for on average having less hydro

Unknown: So my question would be how will the zero carbon goals?

SPEAKER_06: Be affected power the plans be altered in the face of that change. Thank you

Unknown: Thank you very much David

SPEAKER_13: Chief legal officer have we received any request to speak on item number one? Yes from John

Unknown: Okay

Unknown: So John you're next

Unknown: Hello, can you hear me? Yes, we can

Unknown: Good evening chair board and committee. I just want to say those were some outstanding

SPEAKER_11: presentations and I was just wondering is it possible to

SPEAKER_11: Install floating solar on a portion of any of our reservoirs to reduce

SPEAKER_11: Evaporation as well as to produce electricity. Thank you

Unknown: Thank you and

SPEAKER_13: I'll turn to our

SPEAKER_13: General manager, do you have an answer for that question?

SPEAKER_13: I'm imagining we've we study that sort of thing Paul if you don't mind I think it addresses

SPEAKER_04: So actually Quince an alley just a week and a half ago

SPEAKER_04: We met with a vendor who has this technology deployed on reservoirs in Europe

SPEAKER_04: So we are looking at the feasibility of this for our reservoirs namely Union Valley

SPEAKER_04: So at this point we're working through term sheets if you will to just understand the economics of it

SPEAKER_04: Will it kind of pencil out relative to other renewable assets we have and and does it actually provide that?

SPEAKER_04: Much benefit in terms of evaporation rates and helping retain, you know, some of the the reservoir level

SPEAKER_04: So we're actively looking at that as you would imagine

SPEAKER_04: As well as many other types of resources, especially as we enter into our integrated resource plan

SPEAKER_13: Wonderful Josh, thank you and

SPEAKER_13: Thank you John for the question

SPEAKER_13: the next item on the agenda is public comment for items not on the agenda and

SPEAKER_13: We do have another comment card

SPEAKER_13: David Wright, please come forward. Please speak into the microphone. Don't touch it and

SPEAKER_13: State your name for the record

Unknown: Hi, my name is David Wright

Unknown: I'm representing 350 Sacramento

Unknown: We are concerned about data centers

Unknown: there

SPEAKER_06: We've just learned about a data center

Unknown: At McClellan or near McClellan called prime data center 26 megawatts

SPEAKER_06: Which is not tiny

SPEAKER_06: Although there are much bigger data centers

SPEAKER_06: In the works elsewhere around the country

Unknown: So many questions about this

Unknown: Not that I know everything about what happens with smud but

Unknown: Why is this kind of thing not more well known?

Unknown: What does this do to those your carbon plan?

Unknown: What do your customer owners get to say about such things?

SPEAKER_06: such big

Unknown: giant consumption of electricity and and burden on the zero carbon plan

Unknown: Does smud even have discretion and you know in the case of other?

Unknown: Data centers like this

Unknown: Or even bigger ones would you have the ability to say no and if not can you gain the ability to say no?

SPEAKER_06: So

Unknown: This is going to be a large future future issue, and we'd certainly like to hear more about this kind of thing publicly. Thank you

Unknown: Thank you very much for your comments, I want you to know that

SPEAKER_13: The smud board is actively looking at this we had a

SPEAKER_13: you know a session about

SPEAKER_13: AI development and loads coming and

SPEAKER_13: So our staff is working on this in the sense that we want to develop a process

SPEAKER_13: where

SPEAKER_13: You know we have the ability to make sure that they're paying for their

SPEAKER_13: The facilities that will serve them

SPEAKER_13: It is true that we haven't

SPEAKER_13: And I can't say a whole lot. I can see our lawyer

SPEAKER_13: You know like this is not on the agenda

SPEAKER_13: So I I'm just saying that we will have another meeting coming up where we will be talking about

SPEAKER_13: Data centers and how smud will

SPEAKER_13: Be dealing with them, but I can tell you everybody on this board is very much aware of things that are happening and

SPEAKER_13: We are not going to let big companies come into our service territory

SPEAKER_13: And you know take our low rates and make us pay for their infrastructure

SPEAKER_13: So I've probably said too much

SPEAKER_13: And so I'm just going to go ahead and say that written comments

SPEAKER_13: Received on items not on the agenda will be included in the record if they're received within two hours of the end of the meeting

SPEAKER_13: And the last item on the agenda is to provide a summary of committee direction

Unknown: I don't have anything

Unknown: Okay, well then with that this meeting is concluded