Strategic Development Nov 11 2025

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Unknown: Five seconds, please.

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SPEAKER_04: I feel like Mr. Bean. Okay.

SPEAKER_04: Okay. Are we ready? Heidi's online? Perfect. Okay. Ready to go?

Unknown: Okay. Good evening and welcome to the Strategic Development Committee and Special Board Meeting of November 11th.

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SPEAKER_04: You may also submit written comments by emailing them to publiccomment at smud.org.

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SPEAKER_04: if received within two hours after the meeting ends. Chief legal officer, please conduct the roll call.

Unknown: Dr. Sanborn.

Unknown: Here.

Unknown: Dr. Herber.

Unknown: Here.

SPEAKER_04: Chair Buie Thompson.

SPEAKER_06: Present.

SPEAKER_06: All committee members are present. Also present are directors Rose, Kurt, Tamayo and President Fishman.

Unknown: Great. Thank you.

Unknown: Item number one on tonight's agenda is to brief the board on the state of electric transportation industry and also present SMUD's EV strategy.

Unknown: Okay presenters.

SPEAKER_04: Don't, Rachel, you going first?

Unknown: Okay, because on here it says that you're first, but I didn't think that you were. So yeah, I thought that our,

SPEAKER_04: and Drew, will you be going first or Carl?

SPEAKER_05: Okay, great. So we have some great guests both here in person and online.

SPEAKER_04: I will let Drew Higgins

SPEAKER_04: introduce himself. I know him as a great partner at KPMG and he's also the board chair at the Texas Electric

SPEAKER_04: Transportation Resource. If you wanted to give a few words about your background and then hand it over to Carl when you're ready.

SPEAKER_04: Sure, I am honored to be at the most beloved utility in the United States and I say that not as hyperbole from experience.

SPEAKER_13: This is an opportunity for me to share with you

SPEAKER_13: insights from across the United States, my experience with the electric vehicles, from my background

SPEAKER_13: either working at General Motors or working in the utility sector at CPS Energy or with ERCOT.

SPEAKER_13: Hopefully by the end of this

SPEAKER_13: session you'll come away with

SPEAKER_13: insights and even more questions around where

SPEAKER_13: sustainable transportation is going and how it can positively impact your community.

SPEAKER_13: I will hand it over to Carl to give an introduction,

SPEAKER_13: but I do want to emphasize that it is an agreement with the community in terms of how you power your community.

SPEAKER_13: We've seen over the past

Unknown: 20 years

SPEAKER_13: electricity change from just something that turned on lights to something that now powers communication,

SPEAKER_13: environmental control and now transportation.

SPEAKER_13: There's never been a more critical time to get this right and I believe that SMUD is on the right pathway. With that I'll turn it over to Carl.

Unknown: Good evening, everyone.

SPEAKER_07: Carl Poplin, I'm chair of the EV Leadership Council in North America powered by Chartwell, Inc.

Unknown: That's a collaboration of 20 utilities that collectively serve over 65 million people.

SPEAKER_07: Previous to that, I was of the Austin Energy for 17 years.

SPEAKER_07: I'm going to call Austin Energy a sister utility of SMUD, a public power as well. We'll focus on the city that we serve.

Unknown: There,

SPEAKER_07: the last

SPEAKER_07: 12 years of that 17 was the founder and leader of electric vehicles and emerging technologies.

SPEAKER_07: Today my goal is to share some best practices from utilities,

SPEAKER_07: from member utilities that include Austin Energy as well as other utilities across North America.

SPEAKER_07: I also did a recent snap poll with our members on some specific questions to address for today

SPEAKER_07: as well as share some of the

SPEAKER_07: 2025

SPEAKER_07: utility EV program benchmark study powered by Chartwell and it's a very pleasure to be here with y'all tonight.

Unknown: And so the agenda here is

SPEAKER_07: we're going to have Andrew kick it off. Andrew's just a great

SPEAKER_07: big picture guy. I did collaborate with Drew when I was at Austin Energy at CPS.

SPEAKER_07: He's also going to be closing with really talking about why it's important in the community benefits.

SPEAKER_07: So I think Andrew is really going to be talking about the big picture, why it's important, what's shifted in the landscape,

SPEAKER_07: as well as some interesting use case and financials.

SPEAKER_07: I'll be going over a little more of the nuts and bolts. The three main things I'm going to tackle is

SPEAKER_07: a recent study and survey on how leading utilities are organized

SPEAKER_07: in utility EV programs because I think that's the foundation for everything. If you don't have the foundation,

SPEAKER_07: you're not going to have anything else as far as the outcomes I think community or board desires.

SPEAKER_07: I'm going to do a little deeper dive in public EV charging, the landscape there and highlight one of our council members,

SPEAKER_07: Orangen Rockland, as a case study. And I also did want to highlight what PSEG Long Island is doing in understanding your customers.

SPEAKER_07: And specifically I cherry picked two

SPEAKER_07: journey mapping exercises they did as a good template to kind of better frame and ultimately better serve

SPEAKER_07: your customers. Next slide, please. And we'll turn it over to Drew.

Unknown: Motors, I was in charge of

SPEAKER_13: monetizing data from vehicles,

SPEAKER_13: making sure that they could essentially connect to the grid effectively that there was actually a pathway for growth

SPEAKER_13: for sustainable transportation. And I went to the utility to kind of fix the other side of that.

SPEAKER_13: And the first thing I will tell you is in the short time I transitioned, I saw we went from

SPEAKER_13: forecasting

SPEAKER_13: load and dispatching generation

SPEAKER_13: to dispatching generation and forecasting load. And what I mean by that is we went from

SPEAKER_13: looking at how much, how cold it was outside and

SPEAKER_13: figuring out how many gas turbines we fire up in order to meet that need to looking at how much sun

SPEAKER_13: would shine and figure out how much DR we need to call that day in order to meet kind of that requirement,

SPEAKER_13: how much demand response. That fundamental shift in the way that utilities manage

SPEAKER_13: both load and generation is going to shape what we do into the future.

SPEAKER_13: It's never been more clear to me that SMUD has a handle on this. However,

SPEAKER_13: there are going to be some, we'll call it subtle nuances that

SPEAKER_13: reflect choices by both consumers and choices decision makers making this room

SPEAKER_13: that will impact kind of the future of that. So when we look at

SPEAKER_13: the direction of where we're going, we're going into an environment where renewables are the primary source of

SPEAKER_13: generation and battery storage is going to be critical to

SPEAKER_13: making sure that the future is powered and that

SPEAKER_13: sustainable transportation and specifically electric transportation is going to be the

SPEAKER_13: glue that's going to bind that all. We're going to lower

SPEAKER_13: costs for all consumers by having vehicles charge off peak and potentially be able to discharge when we do have critical peak loads.

SPEAKER_13: This is a game-changing shift.

SPEAKER_13: It's something we all need to get a hold of and I know everyone in this room knows that but I can't reiterate it enough.

Unknown: So here we're just talking about

SPEAKER_07: what are consumers thinking about buying an EV charging?

SPEAKER_07: We still see the top three. I've seen this shift a little bit. Some of the recent polling has cost is number one,

SPEAKER_07: but the top three always remain the same.

SPEAKER_07: It's the concern about how they're going to charge, the concern about range of the vehicles and concern the overall cost.

SPEAKER_07: I really think utilities can play a role in addressing a lot of these barriers and we're going to talk about those

SPEAKER_07: coming up next. So next slide, please.

SPEAKER_07: So how are innovative utilities addressing barriers? At the EV console,

SPEAKER_07: we started off with 12 and then we tightened it up to 10 lanes.

SPEAKER_07: We think a holistic approach really involves all the 10 areas you see on screen today.

SPEAKER_07: There's a lot of synergy. I think if a utility stays too narrowly focused on just a few of the areas

SPEAKER_07: they're missing out of the synergies,

SPEAKER_07: just being that role is trusted advisor, fleet electrification, infrastructure,

SPEAKER_07: grid integration and so on. Today, I'm going to focus a little bit more on infrastructure

SPEAKER_07: than maybe some of the other areas, but we can really talk about anything and everything we want to.

SPEAKER_07: I guess this is also the time is, we have time at the end for questions, but feel free to. We're fine with being interrupted at any time.

SPEAKER_07: Next slide, please.

Unknown: So going through the agenda, I really want to talk about the foundation of any good program. So next slide.

Unknown: That is your people.

Unknown: So this is from the recent EV benchmark survey by Chartwell just to show kind of the sizes

SPEAKER_07: of utilities. We did break this down into

SPEAKER_07: those utilities serving less than a million customers and more than a million customers. We had 41 utilities participate in the survey.

SPEAKER_07: So it just kind of gets you a sense of full time and both on contractors and employees

SPEAKER_07: as well as FT is not fully dedicated.

SPEAKER_07: And in the future, in a slide moving forward, I'm going to talk about these as functions.

SPEAKER_07: What are the functions by the core team and what are the functions

SPEAKER_07: that can be part of an ecosystem working and collaborating with that team? Next slide.

SPEAKER_07: One thing I have found though

Unknown: is that

SPEAKER_07: utilities with high outcomes, they typically have a centralized organized maturity.

SPEAKER_07: And so even more important than the number of people, it is that

SPEAKER_07: go-to team and focus that sees the process all the way through.

SPEAKER_07: And so when I talk utilities and before launching the EV Council over two years ago, I interviewed over 50 utilities.

SPEAKER_07: So I started getting some themes, if you will. And what I quickly found at ad hoc or even assembly line, assembly line being

SPEAKER_07: this team does this part of the program and then they might pass it over to communications and they might pass it over to an operational team, etc.

Unknown: Just don't have the same results as a very solid internally and externally well-known centralized team.

SPEAKER_07: It's really what I saw is that the major correlation in driving results,

SPEAKER_07: possibly one of the key indicators for sure. Next slide.

SPEAKER_07: And we can go to the next slide. I'm still showing that.

SPEAKER_07: Sorry about that, Carl. I'm going to pause here for one second just to re-emphasize one,

SPEAKER_13: especially after the Marine Corps birthday yesterday and Veterans Day today. So thank you for all veterans for being here.

Unknown: But you need a throat to choke, right?

SPEAKER_13: You need someone who you can blame and hold accountable for hitting the goals that are necessary that are set by the community, right?

SPEAKER_13: Whether it's a total volume of vehicles on the road, a total KWH that's being charged by vehicles.

SPEAKER_13: You need to be able to set these ambitious goals, give the resources to the right people, set commanders intent, and then let them go.

SPEAKER_13: And this is a simple slide, right? But focus on that centralized, right?

SPEAKER_13: That one person, that one executive leader that can say, these are the decisions that I'm going to make based upon a hypothesis and then I'm going to go and execute on it.

Unknown: Without that, there's an old quote in Alice in Wonderland and it's the Cheshire Cat.

SPEAKER_13: And the Cheshire Cat, Alice says, you know, which road do I take?

SPEAKER_13: And the Cheshire Cat says, where are you going?

SPEAKER_13: Alice says, I don't know. And he said, well, any road will get you there, right?

SPEAKER_13: So without that centralized leadership, you won't have an ability to decide where you want to go.

SPEAKER_13: And that is probably one of the most beautiful slides I've ever seen, right?

SPEAKER_13: It seems like innate, but really, this is what you want to look at.

SPEAKER_13: If you really want results, you need to have a leader.

SPEAKER_13: You need to have someone who can you can point to and you can set a goal to.

SPEAKER_13: I'm sorry, Carl. Back to you.

Unknown: No, perfect. Thank you.

SPEAKER_07: I also appreciate the slide. So you're seeing the my ability to put together a slide is pretty limited.

SPEAKER_07: That is the slide I just put together.

Unknown: So as one of the case studies, I'll use a council member, but also a team I was heavily involved with at Austin Energy.

SPEAKER_07: It's just so, you know, someone I know the most since I co-founded and led this team for 11 years.

SPEAKER_07: And fun fact, in top left hand corner, you see Lisa Martin there, who is now the COO of Austin Energy.

SPEAKER_07: Next slide.

Unknown: So really anything that Austin Energy was done because of that team.

Unknown: But, you know, then you have to think of what's the functions.

Unknown: So when I was really kind of reflecting on what is the core functions of the team and the main points of contact,

Unknown: I mean, on the council, we have one man bands and we have teams up to 65 focused on e-mobility.

SPEAKER_07: So that's kind of the range, but it all breaks down to this.

SPEAKER_07: And so really, as teams grow, they might take some of the functions on the right.

SPEAKER_07: They might move it over to the left or they're just more in scale and more programs.

SPEAKER_07: It's kind of what it was.

SPEAKER_07: But if I were to pick on any one key function is you need to go to kind of Drew's point, a quarterback,

SPEAKER_07: someone that's well known internally and externally, as I know I need to go to this person if I'm even talking about EVs

SPEAKER_07: so then they can kind of funnel and bring together the right folks.

SPEAKER_07: And that's why I see some of our council members have some huge outcomes of even one person shows like Ammon, Missouri,

SPEAKER_07: is a one person show for the most part.

SPEAKER_07: And that's because they have a person named Becky who everyone knows and she's really able to play that role.

SPEAKER_07: And as the team grows, you start ensuring the strategy operations of project management.

SPEAKER_07: Typically, we have project management, two types to build the project management for infrastructure.

SPEAKER_07: That's EVSE, electric vehicle service equipment, as well as fleet electrification project managers,

SPEAKER_07: and then an outreach team and product development.

Unknown: But you cannot underestimate the named points of contact, just not functions that are loose.

SPEAKER_07: But we knew we had key people in each one of the areas you show on the right by name,

Unknown: and they kind of became part of the team internally.

SPEAKER_07: We called them friends of the show and we'd invite them to lunch and our parties and everything else

SPEAKER_07: where they almost felt like they were part of our core team.

SPEAKER_07: Other fun fact, legal at that time for many years was a city attorney called Stuart Riley,

SPEAKER_07: who is now the general manager of Austin Energy.

Unknown: So I guess I'm also saying anecdotally, if you want to be executive at electric utility,

SPEAKER_07: work with your EV programs.

SPEAKER_07: But all these functions come together to really kind of push that outcomes.

SPEAKER_07: So next slide.

Unknown: And a utility does very little on its own in this space of electric vehicles.

SPEAKER_07: So this is just a list of cultivating an EV ecosystem.

SPEAKER_07: And these just aren't people who are working on these.

SPEAKER_07: Every single bullet you see here meant active relationships,

SPEAKER_07: weekly or monthly meetings, members of the team and I would be members of their board, collaboration.

SPEAKER_07: There was just a lot of work.

SPEAKER_07: So I would also say what moves a community forward in transportation and electrification

SPEAKER_07: is working with an ecosystem.

SPEAKER_07: And as a utility and as a trusted advisor as that utility,

SPEAKER_07: you have a real opportunity to be that center stone or cornerstone of an ecosystem like this.

SPEAKER_07: And next slide.

Unknown: And let's next agenda.

SPEAKER_07: So now that we've talked about the foundation,

SPEAKER_07: and I generally talk about organizational work for any utility.

SPEAKER_07: I have not assessed this much specifically or anything like that.

SPEAKER_07: I just always want to set a foundation.

SPEAKER_07: If you want outcomes, and before I talk about outcomes,

SPEAKER_07: I talk about the foundation of getting the outcomes you want.

SPEAKER_07: But let's shift to EV charging.

Unknown: Next slide.

Unknown: So from a big picture, I first like to set the tone.

SPEAKER_07: We're going to talk about public charging.

SPEAKER_07: But public charging is really only about 20% of all charging.

SPEAKER_07: In Austin 2020, it was 84% split.

SPEAKER_07: National polling shows around an 80-20, so it's still pretty close.

SPEAKER_07: Because at the end of the day, providing public charging,

SPEAKER_07: you're competing with home charging for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_07: And multifamily is a different subset of a program to give them home charging.

SPEAKER_07: But it's really about cost, convenience, and then

Unknown: customers enjoy the cost and convenience of charging at home.

Unknown: Charging at home is much cheaper than DC fast charging.

Unknown: And also infrastructure overhaul naturally

SPEAKER_07: has not kept pace with the rapid increase of EV adoption.

SPEAKER_07: Next slide.

Unknown: So and let's go to the next slide.

Unknown: I want to talk about right sizing versus faster is better.

Unknown: A lot in the industry like to push faster is better.

SPEAKER_07: It's better than level two is level three.

SPEAKER_07: It's better than a 100KW level three is a 300KW to three.

SPEAKER_07: And there's a lot of momentum for faster, better.

SPEAKER_07: And I could argue that case if resources were unlimited,

SPEAKER_07: if cost was unlimited and power was unlimited,

SPEAKER_07: there wasn't a cost associated faster is better.

SPEAKER_07: But I think we as utility people can do better.

Unknown: I think it's more about right sizing.

Unknown: And so when you look at the 80% charging is the first two.

SPEAKER_07: Level one and level two.

SPEAKER_07: In Austin, that 80% of all charging have half of it just happens in a wall outlet.

SPEAKER_07: You know what we fancily call level one.

SPEAKER_07: So in that perspective, if someone asks, well, how many charging stations,

SPEAKER_07: EV charging stations do you have in Austin?

SPEAKER_07: I mean, the count would probably be 100 million or so or 50 million

SPEAKER_07: because every outlet you just look around the room you're in is a potential.

SPEAKER_07: If you can plug in a hairdryer, you can plug in a TV.

SPEAKER_07: And then there's level two, which is very popular with home charging as well.

SPEAKER_07: And that just gets you a lot more range per hour.

SPEAKER_07: And then there's a DC pass, but huge jumps in cost as you go up.

SPEAKER_07: So I would say as a utility, we always look at what is it you want to do?

SPEAKER_07: How many miles you drive a day?

SPEAKER_07: What is the use case?

SPEAKER_07: And let's right size the solution versus going to a faster is better mentality,

SPEAKER_07: which a lot of the industry, especially out of utilities go to.

SPEAKER_07: Next slide.

Unknown: So what are utilities doing and what is that role?

SPEAKER_07: There isn't one size fit all is what this slide is showing here.

SPEAKER_07: So when we pull those 41 utilities is 56 of utilities about half.

SPEAKER_07: Only just just do what they normally do.

SPEAKER_07: Their obligation to serve, just provide electricity and that's it.

SPEAKER_07: You're just a provider of electricity and that's okay.

SPEAKER_07: That is fine.

SPEAKER_07: But I think there's a lot more use cases and business opportunities to do more.

SPEAKER_07: So if you look at the radio on the right, you see some utilities,

SPEAKER_07: provider, operator, owner and site house, some cherry pick a few difference of those

SPEAKER_07: at awesome energy, we were everything and above to get to the rollout and the outcomes we wanted.

Unknown: But that isn't necessarily the right for every utility or for every community.

SPEAKER_07: Next slide.

Unknown: And I want to break that down just a little bit more is about half utilities,

SPEAKER_07: they provide the electricity, of course, but also some sort of incentive for the

SPEAKER_07: charging infrastructure.

SPEAKER_07: Another half the utilities, do the electricity and an E.B. advisory service.

SPEAKER_07: E.B. advisory services, some of the best bang for your buck,

SPEAKER_07: especially for commercial charging and fleet charging, because then the day they want a

SPEAKER_07: better understanding how charging works and have that partner to help them get into the implementation

SPEAKER_07: phase.

Unknown: And I also want to kind of make note about I see this number growing year over year.

SPEAKER_07: The 30% utilities offer Make Ready program.

SPEAKER_07: Make Ready is providing a lot of the infrastructure all the way up to the charging station and

SPEAKER_07: removing that cost and uncertainty to your customer.

SPEAKER_07: Very popular with fleet, fleet owner operators.

SPEAKER_07: And I'm seeing a lot of momentum.

SPEAKER_07: I know some utilities who have offered Make Ready programs and it gets fully booked within

SPEAKER_07: weeks, gets fully subscribed.

SPEAKER_07: So it is very popular to move the needle and fleet electrification.

SPEAKER_07: Next slide.

Unknown: And so at the end of the day, one thing is we want to drive as utilities drive a positive

SPEAKER_07: customer experience.

Unknown: And it's not rocket science what customers expect.

Unknown: They want it convenient.

SPEAKER_07: They want it affordable.

SPEAKER_07: And when they pull up, they want the spot available and they want it working.

SPEAKER_07: It's really that easy at a fundamental.

SPEAKER_07: You can get into more nuances as amenities, lighting and all those other things.

SPEAKER_07: But at the core, those are kind of the three things.

SPEAKER_07: So how are utilities doing that?

SPEAKER_07: Most utilities are helping provide that through terms and conditions and rebates and incentives.

Unknown: And in the terms and conditions, they will mandate consistent signage.

Unknown: They might mandate branding to include utility branding, mandate parking enforcement.

SPEAKER_07: So if you're like a grocery store parking lot, you will also put a toe way sign underneath

SPEAKER_07: it to make sure that it's once again customer expectation.

SPEAKER_07: It's available and it's not being iced out.

SPEAKER_07: Ice is a term used when an internal combustion engine is parked in a DV space.

SPEAKER_07: Also generally require an operational commitment.

SPEAKER_07: Five years is pretty popular.

SPEAKER_07: If you accept this incentive, you promise to operate it for at least five years.

SPEAKER_07: And another interesting way is what are the accepted payment methods?

Unknown: I think there's frustration and fear of people don't want four or five apps and four or five

SPEAKER_07: bobs just because of what station is doing what.

Unknown: And I do have a quote, a little mini use case, a quote from a snap poll I did on some language

SPEAKER_07: on accepted payment method, which is going to be in the next slide.

SPEAKER_07: But the utilities that own and operate, you can also help drive a puzzle with the pricing.

Unknown: Three, you know, three types of pricing models are volume, time like a per minute charge volume

SPEAKER_07: is KWH and then fix all you can drink at Austin energy.

SPEAKER_07: We did all three.

SPEAKER_07: We did had a we had a fixed for 23 a month program, also a $30 home and away on 360.

SPEAKER_07: We did minutes on DC fast as well as then then we moved to the line metric.

SPEAKER_07: And, you know, that might be a deeper discussion.

SPEAKER_07: We can talk about those also with service levels.

SPEAKER_07: With both your charging infrastructure service provider as well as support electricians.

SPEAKER_07: Also, you have a lot more control over to put the locations.

SPEAKER_07: So citing is very important.

SPEAKER_07: We had about 10 criteria we looked at before we put a charging and you want multiple use cases

SPEAKER_07: to get the usage.

SPEAKER_07: It's very important to I feel sorry for operators that are just doing like a corridor traffic,

SPEAKER_07: you know, between this city and this city.

SPEAKER_07: And this is where people are going to charge.

SPEAKER_07: Those are historically way underutilized.

SPEAKER_07: What we saw if we want to get the high utilization, we can do corridor traffic.

SPEAKER_07: But we also wanted to site with a multifamily to capture that market.

Unknown: Also look at gig economy drivers, typically gig economy drivers like entertainment,

SPEAKER_07: logistics and airports.

SPEAKER_07: That's pretty easy to figure out as well.

SPEAKER_07: And there's just other, you know, and then safety and amenities and just a layer of things you

SPEAKER_07: look at to do smart siting of that infrastructure.

Unknown: And then aggregators is kind of an interesting thing.

SPEAKER_07: When I did the Snap poll, the console, no one came back and said we're using a third-party

SPEAKER_07: aggregator.

SPEAKER_07: They're all doing something on the top line there as well.

SPEAKER_07: We kind of did a little bit of awesome energy.

SPEAKER_07: One is we standardized on charge points.

SPEAKER_07: We had a consistent experience there.

SPEAKER_07: There's pros and cons to doing that as well as used a plugin, a smart plugin,

SPEAKER_07: I can't pick a widget like on our website that would show all the infrastructure in the area.

SPEAKER_07: So, you know, there's some loose aggregators out there.

SPEAKER_07: I don't know if there's a real winner yet, but that is something I haven't really done

SPEAKER_07: a deep dive into.

SPEAKER_07: No one from the council was doing that.

SPEAKER_07: Something I just haven't heard a lot of in the public charging space.

SPEAKER_07: There's aggregators doing telemetry for the EVs to understand driver behavior and other

SPEAKER_07: aggregators.

Unknown: But I would still say that is kind of an ongoing opportunity for private industry to do.

SPEAKER_07: Next slide.

Unknown: And so I just wanted to put this quote just kind of in response to the snap hole I did

SPEAKER_07: asking about third-party aggregators and customer experience.

SPEAKER_07: So, PSG Long Island are using universal forms of payment.

SPEAKER_07: So, they mandate if you take the incentive in addition to your FOB and your app and everything

SPEAKER_07: else you want to do, your charging station if you want an incentive has to either accept

SPEAKER_07: a credit card reader or tap to pay a QR code that directly goes to the payment site, not

SPEAKER_07: to redirect you to the app or even calling a toll-free number just as a way to once again

SPEAKER_07: standardizing using what the customer uses today and not have them sign up for one more

SPEAKER_07: app or multiple apps.

SPEAKER_07: Next slide.

SPEAKER_07: Here's a dashboard I want to show of Orange and Rockland.

SPEAKER_07: I think they have some of the best dashboarding I've seen in any utility of their programs.

SPEAKER_07: We've done deep dives at the Council of their dashboarding and KPIs and portal.

SPEAKER_07: It really is some great work.

SPEAKER_07: So, thanks to the Orange and Rockland folks there.

SPEAKER_07: I'm going to share just a little bit.

SPEAKER_07: One is just kind of showing their outcomes and they do have, they clearly have that

SPEAKER_07: quarterback role, a very strong team as well.

SPEAKER_07: They're about almost a 30-person team now, but they're really hitting it out in the

SPEAKER_07: part of the metrics.

SPEAKER_07: When you look at Orange and Rockland and the rest of their peer utilities in the area,

SPEAKER_07: they're really hitting out of the part, but how are they doing that?

SPEAKER_07: Let's go to the next slide.

Unknown: One of the ways they're doing that I think is often overlooked is how long it takes to

SPEAKER_07: deploy infrastructure.

SPEAKER_07: And keep in mind, they are doing everything through incentives.

SPEAKER_07: They're not owner and operators.

SPEAKER_07: They are encouraging the ecosystem and private industry and third-party charging providers

Unknown: to come into their market to get the outcomes they want.

Unknown: When they started this journey in 2022, it took 600 days working with the third party

Unknown: to get to the deployment of infrastructure.

SPEAKER_07: Within two years, they dropped it down to 240 days.

SPEAKER_07: The last check-in, it's down to 180 days and still shrinking.

SPEAKER_07: So, if you are going to really utilities just aren't known at moving at a subsonic pace

SPEAKER_07: in this type of project management.

SPEAKER_07: We're generally used to construction of buildings.

SPEAKER_07: That's just a much smaller process, but a lot of our process is associated with buildings

SPEAKER_07: as opposed to charging infrastructure.

SPEAKER_07: I just really want to commend them of how they shrunk that down.

SPEAKER_07: That is a whole 40-minute deep dive that we've done with Oregon Rockland or how they did that

SPEAKER_07: secret sauce.

Unknown: But I would just say, if you're going on this journey, assess how long it's taking

SPEAKER_07: and look at best practices to shrink that down into much more reasonable.

SPEAKER_07: Then the project managers and deployment providers of this infrastructure just have

SPEAKER_07: rave reviews of working with Oregon Rockland.

SPEAKER_07: They're very high customer set.

SPEAKER_07: A big part of that is them being so vigilant and driving down this time to push through

SPEAKER_07: projects and ultimately get infrastructure deployed in their territory that their customers

SPEAKER_07: can use.

Unknown: Next slide.

Unknown: Here's another dashboard.

SPEAKER_07: Oregon Rockland did reply to my snap poll as well.

SPEAKER_07: I think that's an important strategy that you talk about.

SPEAKER_07: They incentivize between 20 to 60% of total cost installed chargers with a guiding principle,

SPEAKER_07: pay as little as possible to get the job done ultimately to maximize rate, payer value.

SPEAKER_07: Here's another one of their dashboards.

SPEAKER_07: I do really like how they look at their metrics and go through it.

SPEAKER_07: You can look at how they're looking at safety, operational excellence, and customer service.

SPEAKER_07: Next slide.

SPEAKER_07: Then last, I just want to highlight what PSEG Long Island is doing.

SPEAKER_07: So this is why they did customer journey mapping.

SPEAKER_07: Next slide.

SPEAKER_07: We did an exercise where we looked at, they did 14 of these.

SPEAKER_07: I just cherry picked two.

SPEAKER_07: I'm not really going to go through this with you, but other than

SPEAKER_07: it's a great way to make sure you understand the characteristics,

SPEAKER_07: interests, goals, and needs, and frustrations and concerns of your customers.

SPEAKER_07: And then the specific demographic.

SPEAKER_07: It's not one size needs all.

SPEAKER_07: So for this talk today, I picked out what a local charting developer installer is.

SPEAKER_07: So you can have that as a reference.

SPEAKER_07: And next slide.

Unknown: The journey mapping portfolio of someone who wants to buy an EV.

SPEAKER_07: Next slide.

Unknown: And then Andrew.

Unknown: Yeah, thanks, Carl.

SPEAKER_13: Just four minutes, Scott gave me the evil eye.

SPEAKER_13: And it was when you were mentioning the FTEs that would be required.

SPEAKER_13: And I totally get it, right?

SPEAKER_13: O&M expenses are incredible.

SPEAKER_13: And we know that they have a real tangible bill impact.

Unknown: And I think everyone in this room is cognizant of those bill impacts.

SPEAKER_13: But there is a good story around the bill impact when it comes to EVs.

Unknown: When you look at the community, you think of the community as a functioning organism.

Unknown: If you have a hole in that organism that's constantly bleeding

SPEAKER_13: and it's not being replenished with sustenance, it will starve to death.

Unknown: And one of those ways that communities are kind of bled out

SPEAKER_13: is through the overuse of things like petroleum.

Unknown: And I'm just going to say it, right?

Unknown: It's one of those things that comes into your community and it just takes value out.

Unknown: And there's not, unless you live in, like, Houston, right,

SPEAKER_13: where you're the beneficiary of carbon-based fuels or Louisiana,

SPEAKER_13: then there's not necessarily a community benefit.

SPEAKER_13: It doesn't make the environment better.

SPEAKER_13: In fact, it makes it worse.

SPEAKER_13: It increases asthma rates.

SPEAKER_13: It subjects the community to the whims of global pricing.

SPEAKER_13: One of the beautiful things about a utility is stable pricing.

Unknown: The benefit returns to the community when you use it.

Unknown: It's clean.

Unknown: Those dollars that are spent on fueling an EV

Unknown: versus fueling a petroleum vehicle return to the environment.

Unknown: If you look at this chart, what you'll notice is,

Unknown: on one side, you have one gallon of gas, and on the other side,

SPEAKER_13: you have the equivalent of that energy in electrons that fill up a battery, right?

SPEAKER_13: When you look at the return on investment for that, for your community,

Unknown: you see that EVs, as a whole, are overly beneficial to the community.

Unknown: This is one of those where times where you can say,

SPEAKER_13: look, by us making more money, we're actually helping the environment.

Unknown: Those dollars that are spent fueling that EV

SPEAKER_13: go to pay for the salary of linemen.

Unknown: They go to pay for better infrastructure, higher resiliency.

Unknown: There is not that many opportunities to have what I consider a sea change in the overall

SPEAKER_13: structure of an economy, of an environment, than right now with sustainable transportation.

Unknown: This is a bragging point.

Unknown: If a community that has responded with a 97% customer satisfaction rate

Unknown: can't trust their utility that they love more than ExxonMobil, then what are we doing?

Unknown: This is an opportunity.

Unknown: This is a gravity-inducing moment, right?

Unknown: And it takes investment.

Unknown: It takes investment because, like most investments,

SPEAKER_13: there's some risk, but like most investments, there's generally a good return.

Unknown: I do want to pause just for a second and ask if there's any questions up to this point.

SPEAKER_13: We want engagement.

SPEAKER_13: Carl and I, we get a little weird sometimes when no one says anything.

SPEAKER_05: Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01: Thank you for your presentation and thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_01: What I think about as you're laying out the plan and proposal that other areas did,

SPEAKER_01: who pays for this?

SPEAKER_01: I know you said 20 to 40% could be subsidized, I'm guessing, by the utility.

SPEAKER_01: But is there money to be made from charging electric vehicles?

SPEAKER_13: Yes.

SPEAKER_13: We have another slide for that and we'll get to that.

SPEAKER_13: The short answer is yes.

SPEAKER_13: When you look at EV charging, when do your customers normally charge their EVs?

Unknown: At home at night.

Unknown: At home at night.

SPEAKER_13: When you look at the relative cost of electricity,

SPEAKER_13: if you look at a stabilized cost, you have a flat rate.

SPEAKER_13: We'll just call it for the sake of argument.

SPEAKER_13: Let's just call it 10 cents per KWH.

SPEAKER_13: But the true cost at night when you have greater supply, it's cheaper.

SPEAKER_13: It's really five or six cents at night while in the day it's actually 15 or 16 cents.

Unknown: Because you have this volumetric benefit at night when most people charge,

SPEAKER_13: they're actually lowering the cost for all your other customers.

SPEAKER_07: I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_07: No, go ahead, Carl.

Unknown: I was going to say, how we look at it, Austin Energy, is this.

Unknown: Is we knew every EV that came into our territory met $400 a year of new revenue to the utility.

Unknown: And we looked at those barriers early.

SPEAKER_07: People aren't buying because they don't see that infrastructure.

SPEAKER_07: Some of this best marketing can do is have charging stations out and about.

SPEAKER_07: People see it at the workplace and see it there.

SPEAKER_07: And that gets them thinking.

SPEAKER_07: But we know in aggregate, we know what 1,000 EVs will do.

SPEAKER_07: 1,000 EVs, 80% will be at home.

SPEAKER_07: And to Drew's point, a lot of that charging happens overnight.

SPEAKER_07: So in the Texas ERCOT market, the electricity can actually get down to zero because of over

SPEAKER_07: capacity of wind and ERCOT.

SPEAKER_07: And so that's just spice on a rib.

SPEAKER_07: That is a lot of value back to the utility.

SPEAKER_07: And you're leveraging existing infrastructure and costs.

SPEAKER_07: Individual charging posts, it's hard to make money in this business.

SPEAKER_07: It's not like this flow of cash.

SPEAKER_07: Your DC fast isn't going to be flooding with your cash.

SPEAKER_07: We look at it as a market leadership position to overcome barriers, to get people to buy

SPEAKER_07: the EVs, to remove the excuses.

SPEAKER_07: And they realize very quickly, public charging is much more important to someone before they

SPEAKER_07: buy their vehicle than two weeks after they buy it.

SPEAKER_07: Because then they figure out, oh, it's just like my cell phone.

SPEAKER_07: I just go home, I plug in my cell phone, and I plug in my car.

SPEAKER_07: I don't think about it.

SPEAKER_07: And that's all just new revenue to the utility.

SPEAKER_07: So it can be quite profitable if you look at it holistic.

SPEAKER_07: But if you look at an individual post, that's much harder.

SPEAKER_07: But that's what we did Austin Energy.

SPEAKER_07: We always looked at the adoption.

SPEAKER_07: And so even though we were about 5% of the population, we were 25%, 35% of the EVs in

SPEAKER_07: Texas.

SPEAKER_07: So we're definitely doing things to attract EV drivers.

SPEAKER_07: And that really helped on a lot of our goals.

SPEAKER_07: To include net zero, I know you all have carbon zero goals.

SPEAKER_07: In Austin, we have net zero goals.

SPEAKER_07: To also help larger community goals, get the NOx emissions out of the air,

SPEAKER_07: to go ahead and do all these other goals we have as a community.

SPEAKER_13: Exactly.

SPEAKER_13: And just to add on to that, if you look at a simple calculus, every DC fast charging port

SPEAKER_13: you add will allow for 100 new EVs by just market accessibility, right?

SPEAKER_13: Just someone saying, OK, I think I can own an EV.

Unknown: If you look at it as 100 new EVs in the year that you put in that port,

SPEAKER_13: gives you a pretty good calculation on what the benefit will be.

Unknown: And now with the cost of DC fast charging, this dropping precipitously.

SPEAKER_13: Just to give you an example, three years ago, a Tesla supercharger for one port was around

Unknown: $75,000 to put in total cost for that one port.

Unknown: For electrify America, $250,000.

SPEAKER_13: We've seen the prices drop now for a Tesla port.

SPEAKER_13: It's somewhere around 24K, fully installed for that one port.

SPEAKER_13: Electrify America, somewhere around $36,000, $37,000.

SPEAKER_13: Through the use of innovative technologies, specifically by making these sleds,

SPEAKER_13: these prefab cement installs, they can put them in quickly with existing infrastructure.

SPEAKER_13: And they also have batteries to allow them to go in without necessarily impacting

SPEAKER_13: excessive demand charges.

SPEAKER_13: So the cost kind of reciprocate on themselves, right?

SPEAKER_13: The cheaper it gets, the easier it is to put them in, the more benefits you get from the community.

SPEAKER_13: But it does take some awareness on the part of the utility to say,

SPEAKER_13: I know this looks negative up front, but we're going to kind of watch this and measure this

SPEAKER_13: to see the benefit.

SPEAKER_13: Carl can speak to it because of the group that he's in.

SPEAKER_13: The benefits, it's panned out, right?

SPEAKER_13: The numbers kind of prove out on their own.

Unknown: Carl?

Unknown: Oh, I think that's it.

SPEAKER_07: Thank you.

Unknown: Okay.

SPEAKER_13: I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this, but essentially,

SPEAKER_13: it's pretty easy to see from the community's perspective.

SPEAKER_13: EVs are just better economically.

SPEAKER_13: So not only, right, by having an EV, are you powering the community?

SPEAKER_13: Are you putting money back into the community?

SPEAKER_13: But also, you have the opportunity to reduce emissions.

SPEAKER_13: One person I have on my board at the Texas Electric Vehicle Association is a pulmonologist, right?

SPEAKER_13: They can see clearly the correlation between asthma rates and emissions.

SPEAKER_13: When you look at environments, especially low-income environments, you'll see cars that are past what

SPEAKER_13: we would consider the zero sum of their kind of emission-controlling equipment on the vehicle.

SPEAKER_13: Basically, your tailpipe, your mufflers, the things that are supposed to limit emissions,

SPEAKER_13: as well as the combustion cycle of the engine kind of deteriorates, those vehicles put out more

SPEAKER_13: asthma-causing emissions than new cars.

Unknown: And so you have this disproportionate impact in low-income areas.

SPEAKER_13: Because those cars are older, they're not as good of condition.

SPEAKER_13: And then you get subsequent asthma rates, which cause other hardships from both on the medical

SPEAKER_13: and financial side.

SPEAKER_13: And so you get this reverberating kind of impact of negativity from gasoline-powered cars.

SPEAKER_13: You don't get that from electric cars.

SPEAKER_13: You don't get that from electric drivetrains.

SPEAKER_13: And so on top of the potential cost savings, you have emission savings and a health impact

SPEAKER_13: that is very, very tangible.

SPEAKER_13: And it's something, as community stewards, that we have to look at seriously.

SPEAKER_13: By not supporting electric transportation, it's like we're ignoring the negative impact

SPEAKER_13: and the negative consequences that these vehicle emissions have on low-income communities.

Unknown: Okay, so that's Carl's dog, so I have no right whatsoever.

SPEAKER_13: Correct.

Unknown: I just started putting my dog in all my presentations, including every month when

SPEAKER_07: we meet in the console.

SPEAKER_07: And I do a new picture every time, so I think that starts to become the highlight what's

SPEAKER_07: Tilly up to.

SPEAKER_07: So this is, I have a cabin in Arkansas.

SPEAKER_07: It's a camp, and this is the beach in front of it.

SPEAKER_07: And notice, Tilly is observing safety first with an orange life jacket.

SPEAKER_07: But that concludes our presentation.

SPEAKER_07: Obviously, we'll open to any other questions, but also be differential to the agenda at

SPEAKER_07: time as well.

Unknown: Any questions?

Unknown: Greg?

Unknown: It's great to see that so many people are charging at home, because obviously that is

Unknown: easier, cheaper to install.

SPEAKER_10: My wife and I just leased an EV, and we don't even have a charger yet.

SPEAKER_10: We're just plugging into an outlet.

SPEAKER_10: And over the weekend, that does what we needed to do.

SPEAKER_10: The hardest nut for that, though, to crack is still the multifamily.

SPEAKER_10: And I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_10: How are you approaching multifamily charging for residential?

SPEAKER_10: I'll start off.

SPEAKER_10: Thank you for that question.

SPEAKER_10: Well, can I at least ask you to go to the next slide, please?

Unknown: Back up slide.

SPEAKER_07: Next slide.

SPEAKER_07: Pass next.

SPEAKER_07: That's our next one.

SPEAKER_07: I think multifamily is very important.

Unknown: In Austin, it's 50% of our housing stock is multifamily.

Unknown: According to AI, it's about a third in some of our housing stock.

SPEAKER_07: And I think that's a good question.

SPEAKER_07: And so what we learned is a few things.

SPEAKER_07: One is understand the market site multifamily is a pretty big number, but you need different

SPEAKER_07: utility programs if it's apartment managed, because they look at it as an amenity.

SPEAKER_07: If it's a homeowner's association, they look about how to associate costs.

Unknown: So that's more of a kind of legal definition, which we work at in Austin.

SPEAKER_07: And then either the type.

SPEAKER_07: Is this a luxury student or affordable?

SPEAKER_07: And a core driver is a company that's a company that's a company that's a company

SPEAKER_07: that's affordable.

Unknown: And a core driver is it's much easier, more effective to do the infrastructure

SPEAKER_07: and multifamily during construction than retrofit.

SPEAKER_07: So if you go to the next slide, and I'll just quickly blast this just so you,

SPEAKER_07: I think it's a great question.

SPEAKER_07: And then let me turn over you.

SPEAKER_07: But at Austin, energy is I really like the idea of tiers of EV readiness.

SPEAKER_07: Some people just think it has to be infrastructure.

SPEAKER_07: And that's what EV ready means.

SPEAKER_07: It's EV capable, EV ready, and then there's an actual space.

SPEAKER_07: So those are different tiers as a different way to make it easier to install.

SPEAKER_07: But this is all during the construction phase.

SPEAKER_07: And then so there's a lot of data, a lot of deep dive.

SPEAKER_07: I could pair y'all with Austin energy on this.

SPEAKER_07: I think they've done some great work.

SPEAKER_07: They work very closely with the Austin building codes to do this,

SPEAKER_07: along with a formalized program called green building at the utility.

SPEAKER_07: And then next slide.

Unknown: And then another thing is, so you've talked about multifamily.

SPEAKER_07: And then here's some of the requirements of having it,

SPEAKER_07: one of those different tiers of readiness.

SPEAKER_07: So something to think about.

SPEAKER_07: And let's go to the next slide.

Unknown: And so here's a case study on fourth and west,

Unknown: where they as an amenity, as a new luxury amenity for condos,

SPEAKER_07: they were doing 40% electric, but they ended up,

SPEAKER_07: they got such good market feedback.

SPEAKER_07: A big reason I'm buying here is because of the CV infrastructure.

SPEAKER_07: They went from 40% to 100%.

SPEAKER_07: So there's also market drivers for it.

SPEAKER_07: So I guess the big picture is, how do you address it?

SPEAKER_07: Is one, is your public charging a big part of your siting should be,

SPEAKER_07: are you also servicing this radius of public charging,

SPEAKER_07: but also how you can impact building codes to make it

SPEAKER_07: both put infrastructure under construction or at the very least the conduits of other things.

SPEAKER_07: That's much more expensive to retrofit.

SPEAKER_07: So that's a very high level.

SPEAKER_07: I mean, that's a, that's a much probably larger conversation,

SPEAKER_07: but a high level, those are some of the key things I'd look at.

SPEAKER_07: Andrew, you had a comment on that?

Unknown: Yeah. So I'm going to start with like the foundational things.

SPEAKER_13: And you hit an important point, which is pre-construction

SPEAKER_13: is already always better than post-construction.

SPEAKER_13: Right. So when you look at the cost of putting in an EMA 1450 plug,

SPEAKER_13: after you built the home, this is a regular residential home,

SPEAKER_13: you're looking at anywhere from 700 to 1200 dollars.

Unknown: You do it pre-construction, it's about 60 dollars.

Unknown: Right. That's a huge, huge impact.

SPEAKER_13: So one of the things that we were able to do in San Antonio will be put into the building codes.

SPEAKER_13: You have to, if you have a garage, you have to put in a NEMA 1450 plug.

SPEAKER_13: Period. Point blank.

SPEAKER_13: Doesn't have to be an EV charger.

SPEAKER_13: You can use it for whatever you want.

SPEAKER_13: You can put in a deep freeze.

SPEAKER_13: You know, you can put in, I don't know, a cement mixing machine.

SPEAKER_13: We don't care.

SPEAKER_13: But one thing's going to be for sure is that home will never have to go

SPEAKER_13: and basically do some type of retrofit to be ready for EV.

SPEAKER_13: So that's at a very fundamental residential level.

SPEAKER_13: If you go out towards the airport in Sacramento, there's a ton of new homes being built.

SPEAKER_13: Right. This is a great opportunity to get way ahead of that and make sure

SPEAKER_13: that all those homes are EV ready from the jump.

SPEAKER_13: Now, multi-unit is not currently solved because, and this is very critical,

SPEAKER_13: it is a very, very, very, very like specific community driven issue.

SPEAKER_13: One of the things that happened to me in San Antonio is I had multiple

SPEAKER_13: building condo associations come and say, look, we want to put in an EV charger.

SPEAKER_13: We would put together a package for them and they'd look at the price and say,

SPEAKER_13: we're not doing that.

Unknown: Just point blank.

Unknown: We can't afford it.

SPEAKER_13: We're not going to do it.

Unknown: And so the San Antonio community had a different perspective,

SPEAKER_13: which is they thought that CPS energy should have borne the cost of that.

SPEAKER_13: And theoretically, looking back at it, we probably could have penciled it out.

Unknown: But that's just not how the community is structured.

SPEAKER_13: Right.

Unknown: And so you have to have a solution that is kind of geared

Unknown: based upon the needs of the community.

SPEAKER_13: Go ahead, Carl.

Unknown: I'd say my biggest takeaways were for property managed apartments.

SPEAKER_07: I mean, we hired someone with no utility experience to lead this program, Bobby.

SPEAKER_07: They had 20 years of property management, hotel management experience.

SPEAKER_07: And what we found there is about amenities.

SPEAKER_07: So once we got 20 to 30 properties signed up,

SPEAKER_07: put infrastructure, we created a logo with EV ready and we kind of ran it in adverts

SPEAKER_07: and that we gave them this signage to use.

SPEAKER_07: Then we're literally getting calls from properties across the street to say,

SPEAKER_07: oh, how can I get on this?

SPEAKER_07: Property apartments are very amenity driven.

SPEAKER_07: If you have a pool, I need a pool.

SPEAKER_07: If you have a gym, I have a gym.

SPEAKER_07: You have EV charging.

SPEAKER_07: So we saw a domino effect, but you have to be very aggressive.

SPEAKER_07: We were in 80% rebate to get that first 20 to 30 properties over the finish line,

SPEAKER_07: but then it domino affected and then we were able to scale back and roll it in.

Unknown: With HOAs, it's all about assigning costs and what we did.

SPEAKER_07: So I was a multifamily HOA president for seven years

SPEAKER_07: while I was the manager of electric vehicles, emerging technology, and Austin energy.

SPEAKER_07: And it was still very hard to figure it out.

SPEAKER_07: And what we ended up doing was a legal definition of electricity to legally allow

SPEAKER_07: the owner to plug in on maybe a garage down here,

SPEAKER_07: even though their meter may be way up there and to create an agreement

SPEAKER_07: that we found acceptable for the city of Austin, Austin energy

SPEAKER_07: for them to appropriately cost share that.

SPEAKER_07: So you weren't running some ridiculous conduits just because where their meter was.

SPEAKER_07: So with HOAs, it was more about helping them legally construct

SPEAKER_07: a completely cost recovery system for the HOA

SPEAKER_07: because they don't want one extra penny to go to this owner that doesn't go to them.

SPEAKER_07: That's how HOAs work.

Unknown: And with apartments, it was amenity driven.

Unknown: But a bigger picture is go ahead and drive the cost down now

SPEAKER_07: and get into your local building codes and city codes as well.

SPEAKER_07: And we've seen a lot of evolving and lead happen with that.

SPEAKER_07: Lead used to give a generic innovation point.

SPEAKER_07: And that's how people got EVs, but now there's all kinds of language

SPEAKER_07: and all kinds of information in there to go ahead and be a lot more prescriptive

SPEAKER_07: than just a generic innovation point.

SPEAKER_07: So we're seeing a lot more information in there.

Unknown: Yeah. And so I want to make sure I answer your question.

SPEAKER_13: So it's going to be community dependent.

SPEAKER_13: However, there are things that SMUD can do to encourage multi-unit dwellings to adopt.

SPEAKER_13: So one is to show them the cost benefit analysis.

SPEAKER_13: If you look back at what used to be an amenity of the laundry room,

SPEAKER_13: if you look at the cost of a laundry room compared to the cost of EV charging,

SPEAKER_13: it doesn't even like this is not even a close in terms of return on investment.

SPEAKER_13: You get a huge return on investment for EV charging,

SPEAKER_13: whereas your laundry room is a continuous call center

SPEAKER_13: that is never going to pay off for you.

SPEAKER_13: The second thing is you have to give them options in terms of off-street charging.

SPEAKER_13: If you look, San Diego Gas and Electric put in a great program where they have

SPEAKER_13: slightly off-street charging with a plug that is provided by the utility.

SPEAKER_13: This is similar to the way they do it in Europe.

SPEAKER_13: It's charged at a rate that is not zero, right?

SPEAKER_13: It's not a net neutral.

SPEAKER_13: There is a revenue generation aspect to it because it's San Diego Gas and Electric

SPEAKER_13: and they want to charge for everything, which is fine, right?

SPEAKER_13: You're offering something and there's a benefit.

SPEAKER_13: But those all enable multi-unit dwelling customers to be able to operate effectively

SPEAKER_13: and EV and transition out of a carbon-based fuel vehicle.

Unknown: Next question.

Unknown: Anybody have any other questions?

SPEAKER_04: They'll hang out.

SPEAKER_04: Does anybody?

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we can go.

Unknown: I just wanted to see if you had a few thoughts on vehicle grid integration

SPEAKER_12: and very specifically to actual infrastructure solutions,

SPEAKER_12: right?

SPEAKER_12: Because everybody says it's easy to say, but it seems to be very difficult to actually do.

SPEAKER_13: So I actually spoke for the California PUC.

SPEAKER_13: Me and Quinn Nakamura had a whole session where we were basically educating

SPEAKER_13: on what the opportunities were for vehicle to grid.

Unknown: Listen, OEMs are not on your side on this one.

SPEAKER_13: And that's vehicle OEMs.

SPEAKER_13: I'm just going to be blunt with you.

SPEAKER_13: The enablement of utilizing your battery to do anything other than drive those wheels

SPEAKER_13: is a risk to their warranty, which is a risk to their bottom line.

Unknown: They're getting over it because of customer demand.

SPEAKER_13: Customers want this as a feature.

SPEAKER_13: They want it.

SPEAKER_13: And it's starting slowly.

SPEAKER_13: So it's the simple things where you have V to X where you plug into your port

SPEAKER_13: and you can plug in a pot of coffee when you go camping.

SPEAKER_13: There is not a long kind of leap from that to powering your home.

SPEAKER_13: In fact, there is no leap.

SPEAKER_13: It's the same darn thing.

Unknown: And so because customers are demanding it, it's going to be there.

SPEAKER_13: Now, from a utilities perspective and someone who selfishly,

Unknown: I ran a very large demand response program in Texas, 270 megawatts.

SPEAKER_13: Very proud of it.

SPEAKER_13: Fantastic program.

SPEAKER_13: Save my customers millions of dollars a year.

SPEAKER_13: I want every last kilowatt to be able to use.

SPEAKER_13: If I can mitigate for CP, our four coincidence peaks,

SPEAKER_13: or I can mitigate any type of generation issue, why not do it?

SPEAKER_13: It helps the community.

Unknown: It's available.

SPEAKER_13: And if you can pay your customers back for it, they're going to participate.

SPEAKER_13: So the first thing is capabilities.

SPEAKER_13: The capabilities will be there.

SPEAKER_13: I say anywhere from two to five years.

SPEAKER_13: If you talk to Len Ames from General Motors,

SPEAKER_13: and I definitely can make that connection for you.

SPEAKER_13: The foundational infrastructure exists already.

SPEAKER_13: Right?

Unknown: One, you can do it right now.

SPEAKER_13: Educating the community and how they do it, that's a different thing.

SPEAKER_13: And then putting together the program so that you can fairly and faithfully execute it

SPEAKER_13: when you need it is a different question.

SPEAKER_13: It's more of an engineering and operational question

SPEAKER_13: than it is like an engineering and physics question.

SPEAKER_13: So yes, it's real.

SPEAKER_13: Yes, you can do it.

SPEAKER_13: No, we haven't done it yet, but I think we will.

SPEAKER_07: Yeah, my thought on that is it's definitely real.

SPEAKER_07: The technical aspects have proven out.

SPEAKER_07: We rolled out quite a few projects, both in demand response.

SPEAKER_07: So V1X as well as 2-way, V2X.

SPEAKER_07: So V2X is part of our Austin Shines.

SPEAKER_07: And we used a Nissan Leaf to do 10KW bidirectional charging.

SPEAKER_07: And that worked technically.

SPEAKER_07: It worked very well as part of a microgrid called Austin Shines Project,

SPEAKER_07: which I was the principal investigator on.

Unknown: So technically, it does work.

Unknown: It's really about the numbers.

SPEAKER_07: You are seeing some OEMs kind of leading with their skis, embracing it.

SPEAKER_07: If you look at when the Ford F-150 Lightning was first advertised,

SPEAKER_07: especially in Texas market, you know, fear of the grid going out,

SPEAKER_07: they went all in and used your truck as a generator.

SPEAKER_07: And now this imagery, if you went to the Ford F-150 Lightning homepage,

SPEAKER_07: the very first amendment they showed was this husband and wife picking up branches,

SPEAKER_07: everything, all the other houses were dark,

SPEAKER_07: but their home was lit up like a Christmas tree

SPEAKER_07: because they had the Ford F-150 plugged into the home.

SPEAKER_07: So from a big perspective, I'd look once again, what's the outcome?

SPEAKER_07: I think you can get 80.

SPEAKER_07: There's a utility, you can get 80% of the value at 20% of the cost in demand response.

SPEAKER_07: So V1G.

SPEAKER_07: What we found when we did several pilots with open ADR,

SPEAKER_07: and that standard has evolved, it's actually pretty healthy right now.

SPEAKER_07: We were doing open ADR 1.0, and then it became 2.0

SPEAKER_07: as a way to curtail demand response.

SPEAKER_07: And we found out this is our customers were much more willing to curb their EV charging,

SPEAKER_07: as long as the vehicle is ready in the morning, we had zero opt-outs in our test pilot.

SPEAKER_07: With air conditioning, we would get opt-outs.

SPEAKER_07: People get one degree warm, they don't care it's gone,

SPEAKER_07: they're just going to turn it down and that signals back the utility and opt-out.

SPEAKER_07: We had 0.0% opt-outs for our EV drivers.

SPEAKER_07: So I'd say there's more elasticity or more willingness

Unknown: for EV drivers to shift your load as long as the vehicle's ready

SPEAKER_07: than our traditional demand response program.

SPEAKER_07: So that's air conditioning in Texas.

SPEAKER_07: And so I think there is a lot of opportunity there,

SPEAKER_07: but I would say it's important to once again, understand the use case,

SPEAKER_07: what the outcome, what is the value, can demand response get you there?

SPEAKER_07: And really, instead V2G, I'm seeing more VTX or VTH, vehicle to home,

SPEAKER_07: as being kind of the market leader for the consumers,

SPEAKER_07: how can I use my vehicle as a generator?

SPEAKER_07: I mean, put in perspective, a Ford F-150 Lightning is the equivalency

SPEAKER_07: of 10 Tesla powerwalls.

Unknown: And you already bought that, it's in there, it's 120, 130 KWH battery pack.

Unknown: And if you can tap into that, that is a much more cost-effective

SPEAKER_07: than buying 10 Tesla powerwalls, that's all they do.

SPEAKER_07: And so I think backup generators, especially in the Texas market,

SPEAKER_07: was pretty compelling for people wanting to go that route.

Unknown: And just to add on that, some of the headwinds for V2G

SPEAKER_13: is the falling price of battery packs.

SPEAKER_13: They fell 50% last year, they'll fall 50% again this year.

SPEAKER_13: They're just getting really, really cheap, which is good for utilities, right?

SPEAKER_13: So utility scale storage, still not where it probably needs to be,

SPEAKER_13: but residential storage is getting really, really affordable.

SPEAKER_13: That is a headwind, but it's still...

SPEAKER_13: It's still an opportunity if you engage with customers in the appropriate way.

SPEAKER_13: At the end of the day, it's a customer choice issue,

SPEAKER_13: but it's there, it's available.

Unknown: These vehicles are still expensive, and as long as they're expensive,

SPEAKER_13: you're going to find that customers want to get the max value out of them.

SPEAKER_13: So if you give them an opportunity or program, they're going to take it.

Unknown: Heidi, did you have a question?

Unknown: I did, thank you.

SPEAKER_15: Thank you.

Unknown: Yeah, this is a great conversation.

SPEAKER_15: We've talked about EV charging every single year, I think.

SPEAKER_15: And I still, as an EV driver myself, feeling like we're not doing enough.

SPEAKER_15: And one of the things I didn't see in your key factors,

Unknown: I didn't see mentioned was safety.

SPEAKER_15: I know for me, as a woman at night, I am not going into a dark parking lot

SPEAKER_15: by myself that doesn't have eyes on it and there's no convenience or there's no

SPEAKER_15: eyes, there's no people there to charge my car.

SPEAKER_15: And I noticed that, you know, we're charging our car in the rain

SPEAKER_15: and every other gas pump I see is under cover.

Unknown: And I just feel like this whole infrastructure is not evolving to be customer friendly

Unknown: in a way that we're going to get people to spend the kind of money

SPEAKER_15: they need to spend on these cars and have a good experience.

SPEAKER_15: So do you want to speak to that at all?

SPEAKER_15: Like why aren't we doing convenience stations with the charging?

SPEAKER_15: Or are there any cities that have required that gas stations also include charging stations

SPEAKER_15: and that they call them fueling stations?

SPEAKER_15: Or it just seems like we're missing opportunities to encourage more people to change TVs?

Unknown: Yeah, I think that's an excellent point.

SPEAKER_07: We had 10, about 10 siting criteria.

SPEAKER_07: So safety was a big part of that and amenities, lighting, a 20 minute amenity like coffee, etc.

SPEAKER_07: We also did deploy eD charging at gas stations.

SPEAKER_07: There's a gas station outside of Austin Airport, which we deployed in there

SPEAKER_07: in the same kind of coverage and amenity.

SPEAKER_07: You're also getting announcements from some of the big gas stations.

SPEAKER_07: They're wanting to roll it out nationally.

SPEAKER_07: We didn't mandate it specifically for gas stations, but that's all part of, you know,

SPEAKER_07: one of my previous slides I looked at siting.

SPEAKER_07: And so siting is about, I focus more on usage.

SPEAKER_07: The use case, you know, multifamily gig economy drivers, etc.

SPEAKER_07: But really the list is about 10 and safety, amenities, security,

SPEAKER_07: all that stuff is all part of good site host development.

SPEAKER_07: I'm sorry, Drew, did you want to add to that?

Unknown: No, I mean, you nailed it, right?

SPEAKER_13: Fundamentally, the reason why it's so bad is because a company that purpose put like

SPEAKER_13: the mass market EV chargers thought that, you know, no part was the best part, right?

SPEAKER_13: And so you had this really simplistic, minimalistic kind of execution of EV charging.

SPEAKER_13: That's not really what customers want.

SPEAKER_13: But now we've seen new market entrance.

SPEAKER_13: If you look at like what I own is doing, they have not only is it well lit,

SPEAKER_13: not only is there generally security or at least some type of camera system,

SPEAKER_13: but there are facilities for snacks, there's facilities to go to the restroom.

SPEAKER_13: There's trash cans, for goodness sakes.

Unknown: It is evolving.

SPEAKER_13: Unfortunately, like I said, the beginning of this thing was like this minimalistic experience,

SPEAKER_13: which was great for early adopters, but it's not going to get the,

SPEAKER_13: you know, the middle movers to where they need to be.

SPEAKER_13: And so to answer your question, standards can be set by the community, but also like inviting the

SPEAKER_13: I owners of the world into your market and making sure you have an induced environment to them

SPEAKER_13: building their facilities here, you'll find that the customer experience is through the roof.

SPEAKER_13: And in fact, significantly better than what you find at everything but a Bucky's, right?

SPEAKER_13: We have our limits.

SPEAKER_13: Bucky's, you're not going to be Bucky's, but other than Bucky's,

SPEAKER_13: this is about as good as the experience can get with Iona.

SPEAKER_07: Definitely not to beat Bucky's.

SPEAKER_07: And I'm also a big fan of charging hubs, 1632 plus chargers and a location servicing a slightly

SPEAKER_07: larger area than onesies and twosies.

SPEAKER_07: Onesies and twosies have single points of failure and they're kind of maybe parked

SPEAKER_07: in this kind of weird area and whatnot.

SPEAKER_07: And so that's another thing to consider when you're deploying infrastructure is how clustered

SPEAKER_07: you are with your infrastructure.

SPEAKER_07: Because that can also help with hitting the customer expectations.

Unknown: Well, for, I mean, I'm glad we all agree because I've noticed some new chargers coming into my

SPEAKER_15: jurisdiction, but in my district, but they're just in the front of parking lots.

SPEAKER_15: They're not covered.

SPEAKER_15: There's, you have to walk.

Unknown: There's some unhoused people hanging around.

SPEAKER_15: But it just doesn't feel like this is where we're going to get the middle of America to

SPEAKER_15: start adopting EVs.

SPEAKER_15: And we're going to max out.

SPEAKER_15: We're going to hit our ceiling about who's going to switch over until we make this more

Unknown: amenitized, I guess.

SPEAKER_15: It needs some amenities.

SPEAKER_15: So thank you for this discussion.

SPEAKER_15: I greatly appreciate it.

SPEAKER_13: It's our pleasure.

SPEAKER_13: And like, you know, we've seen organizations like EDTA and ATE come in and try to encourage

SPEAKER_13: these standards and these growth, the growth of facilities and amenities.

SPEAKER_13: And we are seeing it.

SPEAKER_13: I will tell you, if you go to other countries, you see a vastly different experience, both in terms

SPEAKER_13: of expectations as well as implementation.

SPEAKER_13: That is coming, but it's going to be at the demand of customers.

Unknown: And part of those customers include kind of influences from the city of Sacramento,

SPEAKER_13: SMUD, local community partners.

SPEAKER_13: It's not okay to have like a dimly lit EV charges in an environment where there's lots of shadows

SPEAKER_13: and there's no type of security.

SPEAKER_13: That is not something we should allow.

SPEAKER_13: And I shouldn't have to go buy a piece of pie that I didn't want just so I can use the restroom

SPEAKER_15: while my car is charging.

SPEAKER_15: And that's basically what's happening now because we just don't have, we're out in the middle of

SPEAKER_15: nowhere, very exposed and feeling kind of alone and a little scared sometimes, at least for me.

SPEAKER_15: So thank you again, again, a really good discussion, but we need to get

SPEAKER_15: up the game in order to get more people to switch over.

Unknown: Absolutely.

SPEAKER_07: Thank you.

Unknown: Great.

Unknown: I will save my questions till after our SMUD presentation, but if Carl and Drew, if you can

SPEAKER_04: hang about, we will loop back around.

SPEAKER_04: But if Carl, you do have to leave.

SPEAKER_04: And Drew, I did want to take a moment today is Veterans Day and I asked personally these

SPEAKER_04: two gentlemen to come and they are both veterans.

SPEAKER_04: Thank you for your service in the army and taking your day here to be with us.

SPEAKER_04: And you traveled yesterday and we'll travel tomorrow.

SPEAKER_04: And I know Carl the same.

SPEAKER_04: So in case you have to zip off, I did want to thank you for coming today and thank you for serving.

Unknown: Oh, thank you.

Unknown: Yes.

Unknown: I think Rachel, are you up next?

Unknown: So up next is Rachel Huang.

SPEAKER_04: She's the director of Distributed Energy Solutions who will present what we're doing

SPEAKER_04: at SMUD and what we plan to do in our Strategic Directors.

SPEAKER_04: Great.

SPEAKER_14: Thank you, Director Boogie Thompson.

SPEAKER_14: Yes, Rachel Huang, director of Distributed Energy Solutions.

SPEAKER_14: So just before I start, I just want to mention that in September I came and talked to you about

SPEAKER_14: our zero carbon plan progress.

SPEAKER_14: So I talked a lot about the tactics about our progress and what we're looking ahead in the

SPEAKER_14: next year.

SPEAKER_14: So today is really going to be about the strategy.

SPEAKER_14: But one thing that we weren't able to talk about in September that has since changed

SPEAKER_14: is the expiration of the federal tax credit.

SPEAKER_14: So I wanted to really talk about our strategy and emphasize some of the things that we're

SPEAKER_14: doing, especially in light of a lot of the federal pullback.

Unknown: First, just to start, and I don't need to repeat this, I know Drew and Carl both talked about

SPEAKER_14: like why are we doing EVs and the benefits of EVs?

SPEAKER_14: In our service territory, it helps air quality.

SPEAKER_14: You know, cars, vehicles are the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions, cause

Unknown: air quality issues.

SPEAKER_14: And so those are definitely things that we have.

Unknown: The key is that not only does it benefit us as a utility from a beneficial load growth

SPEAKER_14: and revenue standpoint, so we are looking at 4,700 gigawatt hours of new load and 1.07

SPEAKER_14: billion gross revenue for just 2025 to 2030 from EV charging alone.

SPEAKER_14: But from a customer perspective, it's really got value for them as well.

SPEAKER_14: And as Drew mentioned, really can be reinvested back into the community, because that value

SPEAKER_14: is here in the Sacramento community.

SPEAKER_14: Where looking at the total cost of ownership, EVs can reduce annual household transportation

SPEAKER_14: bill burden by $2,000, which is a total savings across all of our EV drivers of what we expect

SPEAKER_14: from an adoption standpoint of $575 million per year.

SPEAKER_14: So it's pretty significant not only for us, but for our customers as well.

SPEAKER_14: And as we just talked about vehicle grid integration, that really can help us as we think about

SPEAKER_14: achieving our zero carbon plan goals, both from a keeping rates low as well as helping

SPEAKER_14: support decarbonization and increased use of renewables.

SPEAKER_14: But we are facing some headwinds.

SPEAKER_14: I won't go through all of these, but this is really the list as you look at both the

SPEAKER_14: light duty side as well as the medium and heavy duty side of a number of the Federal

SPEAKER_14: policies and also kind of implications from a statewide standpoint that have been impacted

SPEAKER_14: by the Federal pullback.

SPEAKER_14: So we did lose the $7,500 new and 4,000 used EV Federal tax credit that ended at the end

SPEAKER_14: of September.

SPEAKER_14: There was also a commercial EV tax credit that ended in September as well.

SPEAKER_14: We see things like advanced clean cars, which was really about the auto OEMs and 100% EV

SPEAKER_14: sales that was repealed by Congress.

SPEAKER_14: And then we've got HOV lane access ending.

SPEAKER_14: And then as we looked at medium and heavy duty, we had advanced clean trucks, which

SPEAKER_14: was that OEM sales requirement repealed.

SPEAKER_14: And then consequently, we had CARB pulling back on the advanced clean fleet.

SPEAKER_14: So lots of activity from a policy standpoint, not only at the Federal level, but implications

SPEAKER_14: at the statewide level that are frankly going to create some headwinds.

SPEAKER_14: So what does that mean?

SPEAKER_14: And it's still pretty early.

SPEAKER_14: So we've been looking at like, hey, what are some studies that are doing with regards to

SPEAKER_14: predictions of what adoption is going to look like given the Federal pullback?

SPEAKER_14: This slide is actually from the repeat project, which is a joint project of the Princeton

SPEAKER_14: University Zero Carbon Energy Systems Research and Optimization Laboratory and Evolved Energy

SPEAKER_14: Research.

SPEAKER_14: They actually published this analysis.

SPEAKER_14: And it finds that the termination of the vehicle tax credit, as well as the manufacturing tax

SPEAKER_14: credit, which is really, really key in the repeal of the IRA, will cause about a 40%

SPEAKER_14: decrease in light duty vehicle sales in the US by 2030.

SPEAKER_14: So this is a US perspective.

SPEAKER_14: This is not a California perspective.

SPEAKER_14: We have not been able to find, we haven't seen any published analysis of California yet.

SPEAKER_14: But really, this is just to kind of say, hey, this is going to have implications with regards

SPEAKER_14: to slowdown.

SPEAKER_14: As much as we would like to think, hey, California, we've got very supportive policies, also how

SPEAKER_14: we think about where the state will be in terms of continuing to support EVs, while

SPEAKER_14: we do believe that we, and we have strategies that I'll talk about shortly, of continuing

SPEAKER_14: to drive towards the outcomes that we want from a transportation decarbonization standpoint,

SPEAKER_14: there is implications of this federal pullback.

SPEAKER_14: The next slide really talks about also implications about the state of the medium and heavy duty

SPEAKER_14: market.

SPEAKER_14: With all of those policy changes, we do expect to see implications as well.

SPEAKER_14: We're also seeing the industry react.

SPEAKER_14: So the automakers actually sued to withdraw from the 2023 California Clean Truck Partnership.

SPEAKER_14: That partnership had basically had the OEMs committing to CARB that they would stay true

SPEAKER_14: to the terms of the advanced clean trucks, regardless of where federal policy might change.

SPEAKER_14: So that is some action that we're seeing on the OEMs part that's pulling back, given some

SPEAKER_14: of the federal pullback as well.

SPEAKER_14: We do have some remaining funding mechanisms that are supporting medium and heavy duty.

SPEAKER_14: The low carbon fuel standard credit, clean fuel rewards, sorry, LCFS, CFR, lots of acronyms.

SPEAKER_14: As you recall, the Clean Fuel Rewards Program was supporting light duty vehicles for cash-on-the-hood

SPEAKER_14: incentives actually in the change and update with regards to LCFS regulations.

SPEAKER_14: They are actually moving to supporting medium and heavy duty.

SPEAKER_14: So that's going to be an opportunity.

SPEAKER_14: California does still operate the HVIC program, so the Clean Bus and Truck Vouchers, that provide

SPEAKER_14: incentives to private and public fleets to purchase EVs.

SPEAKER_14: And apparently that actually had quite some very popular subscription too in its latest

SPEAKER_14: release.

Unknown: But, again, the reality is that some of this policy pullback is also going to have implications

SPEAKER_14: in the medium and heavy duty market.

SPEAKER_14: And really what we're seeing, and I think we're going to see this both for light duty

SPEAKER_14: and for medium and heavy duty, is that as we look at, you know, a lot of the activity

SPEAKER_14: has been driven by grants and tax credits and subsidies, that we're really going to

SPEAKER_14: be looking towards structural cost reductions and looking at total cost of ownership as

SPEAKER_14: really kind of the factors that are going to drive adoption, both on the light duty

SPEAKER_14: side and particularly on the medium and heavy duty side.

SPEAKER_14: And from an optimism standpoint, actually this infographic to the right shows that,

SPEAKER_14: you know, RMI is showing that there are reasons to believe that electric trucks are approaching

SPEAKER_14: cost parity to diesel trucks in that late 2020s, early 2030s timeframe.

SPEAKER_14: So again, expect some slowdown, but it's not, you know, not all hope is lost and not all

SPEAKER_14: funding is gone.

SPEAKER_14: We just have to be a lot more strategic and more focused in the work that we do.

Unknown: So, thanks.

Unknown: Well, just real quick, because it's close to my day job, right?

SPEAKER_12: The HVIP program basically was full within a couple days and the wait list was left open

SPEAKER_12: for another couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_12: But you're talking about $200 or $300 million worth of vouchers.

SPEAKER_12: So there's really still market interest and this is heavy duty commercial vehicle sales.

SPEAKER_12: So there's still a lot of interest there just despite, you know, the list of half a dozen

SPEAKER_12: things the federal government's done to try to squash the market.

SPEAKER_12: Exactly.

SPEAKER_12: Exactly.

Unknown: Yep.

Unknown: Okay.

SPEAKER_14: So like I said, there are definitely policy headwinds, but price is that opportunity from

SPEAKER_14: a tailwind standpoint.

SPEAKER_14: And like I said, you know, as you see on the left-hand side, you know, total cost of ownership

SPEAKER_14: for new EVs, you're actually seeing it achieve lower than internal combustion engines without

SPEAKER_14: tax credits over time.

SPEAKER_14: So that is going to be an opportunity in our service territory as we think about maintenance

SPEAKER_14: costs, as we think about our low electricity rates, definitely opportunities to continue

SPEAKER_14: to find value in adopting electric vehicles even without the tax credit.

SPEAKER_14: Other things that we're seeing is that the global market is continuing to expand.

SPEAKER_14: So auto OEMs are not just getting out just because, you know, the U.S. is pulling back.

SPEAKER_14: So you know, there has been automaker announcements of scaling back EV investments, but they continue

SPEAKER_14: to advance EV and battery technologies because they have to compete with the Chinese automakers,

SPEAKER_14: right?

SPEAKER_14: We are also seeing that a number of OEMs are planning to release sub-30,000 vehicles with

SPEAKER_14: 300-mile range in 2026.

SPEAKER_14: So I think this goes back to like, hey, what's the price point and the sweet spot to continue

SPEAKER_14: to encourage adoption?

SPEAKER_14: And you know, we're seeing technology evolve as well.

SPEAKER_14: We have a number of manufacturers that are going to be launching solid-state battery

SPEAKER_14: technologies in the later part of the decade.

SPEAKER_14: You've probably read about how they've got much more extended range.

SPEAKER_14: You know, Toyota's new performance lithium-ion solid-state batteries is going to achieve

SPEAKER_14: a 490-mile range, and their future batteries, they're projecting to reach about a 620-mile

SPEAKER_14: range.

SPEAKER_14: So technology is continuing to evolve to be able to continue to support the market.

SPEAKER_14: And then also on the used car sales, you know, we had been seeing a lot of supply challenges

SPEAKER_14: and not seeing a lot of used EVs, but now we're actually seeing used EVs nearing price

SPEAKER_14: parity between the used internal combustion engine vehicles as well as EVs.

SPEAKER_14: So in August, the price difference fell to just $897, which is the lowest that it's actually

SPEAKER_14: ever been on record.

SPEAKER_14: And we're seeing lease returns as well as trade-ins that are actually boosting the supply

SPEAKER_14: of used EVs.

SPEAKER_14: So again, to reiterate, like, again, what are we going to focus on?

SPEAKER_14: How do we need to be much more deliberate on what we do is to shift that focus from

SPEAKER_14: incentives to really thinking about vehicle performance, thinking about technology evolution,

SPEAKER_14: and really looking at total cost of ownership as we continue to encourage our customers

SPEAKER_14: to adopt EVs, both at the light duty side as well as on the medium and heavy duty side.

Unknown: Rachel?

SPEAKER_01: Yes.

SPEAKER_01: Just for a second.

SPEAKER_01: I read an article today that Ford has decided not to continue with the electric F-150.

SPEAKER_01: So are they still going to be spending $4 billion?

SPEAKER_14: So what I have heard, and thank you, staff, for preparing me, is that they may not continue

SPEAKER_14: to sell more new ones, but they have some, or produce new ones, but they have some that

SPEAKER_14: are already in production, and they will be introducing some sub $30,000, so more cost-competitive

SPEAKER_14: ones.

SPEAKER_14: So think about it about price point, right?

SPEAKER_14: If you need subsidies to sustain purchases of certain EV models, that makes that market

SPEAKER_14: demand more challenging.

SPEAKER_14: But if you can offer some EVs in a price point that customers will buy without the tax credit

SPEAKER_14: or without subsidies, that's the opportunity.

SPEAKER_14: So even if F-150 is so popular, but think about the market potential and the price points,

SPEAKER_14: and I think that's where we're seeing some of the movements to continue on.

SPEAKER_14: But Drew?

Unknown: So a little bit about the F-150 Lightning.

SPEAKER_13: It was created as a reaction to the lack of a product in that segment by Ford.

SPEAKER_13: They took a regular F-150, they took the cab, the body, and all the other stuff, and they

SPEAKER_13: basically went to suppliers, and they put everything else they needed, purchased piece

SPEAKER_13: by piece from a supplier, to make that vehicle.

SPEAKER_13: It makes it extremely expensive, and the customer experience is not very good because

SPEAKER_13: it's not a seemingly made vehicle.

SPEAKER_13: You're going to hear this term called a software-defined vehicle, which is really what they mean is

SPEAKER_13: a very thoughtfully and purposely designed vehicle around a singular consumer experience.

SPEAKER_13: Because of that, and I launched the F-150 at San Antonio at CPS Energy.

SPEAKER_13: Linda Zane was a head designer, and we had long talks about what it took to get them

SPEAKER_13: in that product.

SPEAKER_13: They basically developed a vehicle in a year and a half where a vehicle normally takes

SPEAKER_13: five years to develop.

SPEAKER_13: It was never going to be cost-effective.

SPEAKER_13: But with the offset from essentially carbon emissions credit, it made it viable for Ford

SPEAKER_13: to continue to manufacture that vehicle because for every one F-150 they sold, they can sell

SPEAKER_13: six, I mean electric F-150 they sold, they can sell six regular F-150s.

SPEAKER_13: Because that's been taken away, because the emission standards have been reduced, the

SPEAKER_13: vehicle just no longer is viable.

SPEAKER_13: Now that being said, Ford has designed actually in California a new platform from the ground

SPEAKER_13: up to be electric.

SPEAKER_13: It's going to be a pickup, it's going to be the first kind of package around that form.

SPEAKER_13: And these investments that Ford is making, they really have no choice but to continue

SPEAKER_13: down that road.

SPEAKER_13: It is a fight for the future of Ford Motors.

SPEAKER_13: And so what you're going to see is a new vehicle platform, it's going to be smaller than a

SPEAKER_13: full-size pickup truck, but it will be better in every conceivable way than the current

SPEAKER_13: F-150.

Unknown: Thank you.

SPEAKER_13: Thank you for the sound.

SPEAKER_14: Yes, thank you, Drew.

SPEAKER_14: We've got our own EV in-house expert here today, so that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_14: So I will reiterate a little bit of our progress just to let you know how things have sort

SPEAKER_14: of panned out, sort of post the September tax credit expiration.

SPEAKER_14: So we had shown you, you know, we're exceeding our goal for the year, our forecast is exceed

SPEAKER_14: the goal.

SPEAKER_14: Actually the current snapshot is outdated, so don't even look at those numbers.

SPEAKER_14: We are now at 75,550 EVs in Sacramento County for the end of Q3.

SPEAKER_14: Obviously saw a huge run-up in September with regards to accessing that tax credit.

SPEAKER_14: We are forecasting to end the year at about 79,000, so we do expect that we will continue

SPEAKER_14: to do well, but we are expecting a pullback in October for sure and possibly a little

SPEAKER_14: slowdown through the end of the year.

SPEAKER_14: We think that we might still see softening in 2026 and 2027.

SPEAKER_14: Like I said, you know, there have been no predictions with regards to EV adoption in

SPEAKER_14: California yet given the federal impacts, but we are expecting, you know, there's increased

SPEAKER_14: cost of raw materials impacted by tariffs.

SPEAKER_14: You've got the health of the U.S. economy.

SPEAKER_14: There's continued pressure on overall vehicle affordability that's impacting every new car

SPEAKER_14: sold, not just EVs.

SPEAKER_14: I don't know if any of you saw that article that came out that said like the, I don't

SPEAKER_14: know if it's like the median or the mean cost of an EV, or sorry, not an EV.

SPEAKER_14: A vehicle now is $50,000.

SPEAKER_14: So just think about that.

SPEAKER_14: Like I was shocked.

SPEAKER_14: So yeah, who can afford a $50,000 vehicle?

SPEAKER_14: From a charger penetration standpoint, we look at the California Energy Commission's

SPEAKER_14: biannual AB 2127 report.

SPEAKER_14: So that's that table.

SPEAKER_14: It estimates the number of chargers needed to support the statewide's EV adoption goals.

SPEAKER_14: They're actually in the process of updating that report.

SPEAKER_14: We were trying to get some preliminary data, but they have not released it or shared it

SPEAKER_14: with us.

SPEAKER_14: It's actually going to be published in January of 2026.

SPEAKER_14: So that will actually have the latest numbers of both what they think the EV adoption is

SPEAKER_14: going to be and the chargers needed.

SPEAKER_14: So these numbers are from 2024.

SPEAKER_14: You can see we're making a lot of great progress on DC fast chargers.

SPEAKER_14: Admittedly, we're a little bit behind on the workplace and multifamily, but we are doing

SPEAKER_14: a lot, and you'll see in the strategy that a lot of the strategy is about charging, about

SPEAKER_14: charging infrastructure, about how we think about grid infrastructure.

SPEAKER_14: We're actually making a lot.

SPEAKER_14: We've got a lot of projects in the pipeline relative to multifamily charging.

SPEAKER_14: I actually just signed a bunch of incentives for three multifamily different facilities,

SPEAKER_14: including 48 level 2 handles at Capitol Towers, 20 level 2 handles at 1801 L Street, and 52

SPEAKER_14: L2 handles at Overlook Blue Ravine, which are all multifamily complexes.

SPEAKER_14: So they're definitely coming in.

SPEAKER_14: We also have our Reach 2 grant, which is going to be 400 level 2 handles.

SPEAKER_14: So while these numbers may look a little bit small, we're definitely focused and working

SPEAKER_14: on progressing those.

SPEAKER_14: And we actually think with the new iteration, we'll wait to see in January, but those numbers

SPEAKER_14: could come down to of what their expectations are.

SPEAKER_14: Our 288,000 EV target for 2030 was actually set back when the CEC and the state had certain

SPEAKER_14: goals.

SPEAKER_14: However, in the 2024 biannual CEC AB 2021 report actually dropped down to, what was

SPEAKER_14: it, under 200,000.

SPEAKER_14: So we have not adjusted our own goals, but the state has been sort of adjusting what

SPEAKER_14: their modeling shows of how many EVs they think they'll have in the state of California,

SPEAKER_14: what the implications are in our service territory and what the chargers are needed to support

SPEAKER_14: those.

SPEAKER_14: So this slide should be pretty familiar.

SPEAKER_14: As we've discussed, we've come and talked about the EV strategy over the last couple

SPEAKER_14: years each year.

SPEAKER_14: And as I mentioned at the beginning, our EV strategy is pretty durable.

SPEAKER_14: We are continuing to pursue these key four pillars because they're really fundamental

SPEAKER_14: to achieving the outcomes that we want, where especially as a utility, we want to focus

SPEAKER_14: on making sure that charging is available to our customers.

SPEAKER_14: Carl talked about how even the availability of charging can help encourage customers to

SPEAKER_14: adopt EVs.

SPEAKER_14: And we want to make sure that it's affordable.

SPEAKER_14: So as we think about that comparison between customers that can only access charging from

SPEAKER_14: public charging because they love the multifamily, we're obviously opening up multifamily charging

SPEAKER_14: at multifamily communities.

SPEAKER_14: But for those that can't, what that cost is to charge from a public charging standpoint

SPEAKER_14: is key.

SPEAKER_14: We need to make sure that we've got easy to build and easy to energize.

SPEAKER_14: I'll talk a little bit more about that in terms of speed to being able to get energization.

SPEAKER_14: I know Carl shared that timeline of the example of that utility with regards to how quickly

SPEAKER_14: they can get energization for EV charging.

SPEAKER_14: Flexible grid interconnection.

SPEAKER_14: So as we think about the grid infrastructure needed to support our EVs, how do we make

SPEAKER_14: sure that we're optimizing what those investments are to continue to keep our rates low and

SPEAKER_14: look at that financial benefit of EVs relative to the investment that we need to make in

SPEAKER_14: our grid to support that.

SPEAKER_14: And then finally, as many of you know, there's been a lot of talk about like, hey, in order

SPEAKER_14: to really support these growing numbers of EVs as well as all the other technologies

SPEAKER_14: we talk about, a trained and skilled workforce is really, really key.

SPEAKER_14: So first, affordable charging and equitable access.

SPEAKER_14: Really this, as I mentioned, is making sure that we've got available chargers and we've

SPEAKER_14: got pricing to help support that transition.

SPEAKER_14: And really first, what success looks like, we'd like to achieve by 2030 a cost of charge

SPEAKER_14: where EV charging is less than the cost of gasoline at like 50% of the gas cost of gasoline

SPEAKER_14: or lower and making sure we've got that comparable cost for those single family customers that

SPEAKER_14: can benefit from that lower cost to multifamily drivers who may not be able to do so as well.

SPEAKER_14: So key things that we are doing is, you know, we are launching our SMUD charging network

SPEAKER_14: as we've talked about next year.

SPEAKER_14: We'll also be launching and leveraging our SMUD EV app.

SPEAKER_14: That's actually going to enable our, we're actually providing programmatic support through

SPEAKER_14: our pricing program that will actually reduce cost for charging for low income customers

SPEAKER_14: and customers that work and live in multifamily units as well as transportation network providers.

SPEAKER_14: So really looking at those customer segments that don't have the opportunity to get that

SPEAKER_14: cost effective charging from a single family standpoint and being able to bring that to

SPEAKER_14: them with the chargers that are being implemented through our CEC grant funded programs.

SPEAKER_14: Well, as mentioned, installing a lot of chargers through those grant programs.

SPEAKER_14: We're also looking at launching a workforce, a workplace charging program to enable customers

SPEAKER_14: more access to EV charging as well as making sure that they're able to leverage lower cost

SPEAKER_14: charging which being able to serve them at certain times of the day can be valuable.

SPEAKER_14: And then a sort of a future look from a 2030 standpoint is, as you know, we're doing a

SPEAKER_14: lot of, we're doing a lot of investment in advanced technologies as we think about next

SPEAKER_14: generation meters and grid edge technologies that sort of in that late 2020s, maybe a little

SPEAKER_14: bit post 2030 is to be able to have EV sub-metering technologies where you can actually measure

SPEAKER_14: what the EV charging is and offer those lower cost EV specific rate at multifamily housing.

SPEAKER_14: On the easy to build, easy to energize, this is really like, hey, how do we help support

SPEAKER_14: reducing that time to energization for those EV charging platforms and charging plazas

SPEAKER_14: or even workplace charging that really needs pretty substantial capacity in order to be

SPEAKER_14: able to charge?

SPEAKER_14: So we've been working on this for quite some time, but one thing is the timeline.

SPEAKER_14: And the other thing, as Carl mentioned, is there's costs as well.

SPEAKER_14: And so a lot of the investor owned utilities actually have make ready programs that actually

SPEAKER_14: helps reduce the cost for customers or especially commercial customers that are looking to energize.

SPEAKER_14: And so how do we really think about that proposition for customers within our service territory?

SPEAKER_14: So one of the things we've been working on is a hosting capacity map.

SPEAKER_14: We actually have one and we are working with EPRI through their EVs to scale E roadmap,

SPEAKER_14: which is a publicly facing map of the entire U.S.

SPEAKER_14: You can go check it out.

SPEAKER_14: And actually several utilities, I think it's like 14 or so, have actually provided hosting

SPEAKER_14: capacity maps that are loaded into E roadmap.

SPEAKER_14: So an Amazon or an enterprise rental car can go and look and see where there's hosting

SPEAKER_14: capacity, that if they're interested in putting EV charging, they can do a little bit of analysis

SPEAKER_14: on their own before they actually go and do a formal process relative to working with

SPEAKER_14: the utility.

SPEAKER_14: We have provided to EPRI substation level hosting capacity maps.

SPEAKER_14: They haven't loaded them yet, but we'll be loading them up.

SPEAKER_14: And then internally we have the hosting capacity maps completed at the feeder level for our

SPEAKER_14: own internal purposes to work through things as well.

SPEAKER_14: We've already done some flexible interconnection processes in order to help encourage customers

SPEAKER_14: that are wanting to do EV charging plazas to be able to electrify quickly.

SPEAKER_14: We'll be formalizing that process to make sure we've got that.

SPEAKER_14: And so one of the success metrics is making sure that we're enrolling many customers in

SPEAKER_14: flexible connection agreements and really lowering the bar and making it easier for

SPEAKER_14: customers to do.

SPEAKER_14: And then that faster development and cheaper operating environment than PG&E, we're always

SPEAKER_14: competitive, right?

SPEAKER_14: So how do we think about the costs?

SPEAKER_14: They do have make ready.

SPEAKER_14: So what are those potential programmatic or economic development offerings that really

SPEAKER_14: think about the financial implications to us and to them and be able to help them transition

Unknown: to encourage that fleet and medium heavy duty adoption?

SPEAKER_14: One of the things we already have in the process is a commercial EV pilot rate.

SPEAKER_14: That's kind of an example of what we've done, but continuing to progress against that.

SPEAKER_14: Flexible integration for resilient grids.

SPEAKER_14: So how can we really take advantage?

SPEAKER_14: So in order to keep rates low, we need to make sure that we are optimizing the investments

SPEAKER_14: that we make in the grid in order to help support that EV charging.

SPEAKER_14: And that is really going to help contribute towards downward rate pressure for SMUD.

SPEAKER_14: So as we're getting the revenue from the electricity sales, but optimizing the investments, we

SPEAKER_14: need to make in the grid to support that.

SPEAKER_14: Also to support our zero carbon goals, we need that flexibility through managed charging

SPEAKER_14: and future V2G or V1G, V2X and all of those things for those applications.

SPEAKER_14: As for us, from a managed EV charging standpoint, we are going to be operationalizing our managed

SPEAKER_14: EV charging program next year.

SPEAKER_14: We're hoping to get to by 2030 that 50% of all of our impacted transformers have customers

SPEAKER_14: that are participating in managed EV charging so that we can actually mitigate the investments

SPEAKER_14: we need to prevent changing out some of those transformers.

SPEAKER_14: And to enable at least 35 megawatts of V to A or V to G EV resources by 2030 to begin

SPEAKER_14: leveraging that battery storage capacity.

SPEAKER_14: As we shared before, leaving it unmanaged could cost us a lot.

SPEAKER_14: So really it's an opportunity for us from a cost saving standpoint to really be able

SPEAKER_14: to get the benefits, the financial benefits from an EV charging standpoint.

SPEAKER_14: And then we've talked a lot about V2G.

SPEAKER_14: I know there's a number of questions and appreciate our external speakers kind of speaking to

SPEAKER_14: that.

SPEAKER_14: One thing that we're seeing is that it's still pretty expensive for customers to get that

SPEAKER_14: hardware to do the V to H or V to G.

SPEAKER_14: It's like in that $15,000 to $20,000.

SPEAKER_14: And so one big thing is, can you do it now?

SPEAKER_14: Yes.

SPEAKER_14: Does it make sense cost wise?

SPEAKER_14: It depends on probably the customer's value proposition for that resiliency.

SPEAKER_14: And it also as we think about the access to that battery storage capacity, what the value

SPEAKER_14: of that is to us.

SPEAKER_14: And so that's a lot of work that our teams are working together on working through.

SPEAKER_14: Yes.

SPEAKER_12: Could you just maybe speak a word to the status of our Twin Rivers electrification work?

SPEAKER_14: I don't know if James had talked about that in his SD10 report out in October.

SPEAKER_14: My understanding is the Twin Rivers specifically has gone through a number of transitions because

SPEAKER_14: when we started out, the company that we had for the charging, so the buses are EV, V2G

SPEAKER_14: enabled.

SPEAKER_14: But the charging company that we were working with was something.

SPEAKER_14: And then it was bought by Ford.

SPEAKER_14: And so it went to Ford Pro.

SPEAKER_14: And then I think there had been just some iterations and there's been some challenges.

SPEAKER_14: But happy to have James send a follow up on kind of the exact status of that.

SPEAKER_14: So like I said, I know the school buses are V2G enabled, but there's been some challenges

SPEAKER_14: relative to the hardware, especially given the transitions and buyouts of the different

SPEAKER_14: companies.

Unknown: Okay.

SPEAKER_14: Last pillar, which is workforce.

SPEAKER_14: So I know Dr. Webster and Jacob Kadees have spoken about the roadmap for workforce development.

SPEAKER_14: It's hard to develop a workforce for EV specific things.

SPEAKER_14: And then you've got the boom and the bust with regards to funding from an EV standpoint

SPEAKER_14: that can make it challenging.

SPEAKER_14: So really needing to make sure that we are doing workforce development programs to be

SPEAKER_14: able to do multiple industries and technologies and also having that roadmap to start from

SPEAKER_14: entry level positions all the way to high road careers.

SPEAKER_14: So really important of navigating that path.

SPEAKER_14: So a lot of work that we'll be doing over the next several years is identifying and

SPEAKER_14: tracking that job demand growth.

SPEAKER_14: So really understanding by sector what those needs are and how our workforce development

SPEAKER_14: offerings can intervene and actually support those.

SPEAKER_14: Working with employer coalitions to be able to create that employment pipeline across

SPEAKER_14: the multiple industries.

SPEAKER_14: And then as we're doing with economic development and new business development, attracting those

SPEAKER_14: new transportation electrification businesses that are really going to help support and

SPEAKER_14: have that demand and create that demand from a job standpoint so that our workforce programs

SPEAKER_14: can really flow into careers.

SPEAKER_14: So Carl had talked about EV organization structure and best practices.

SPEAKER_14: I'm happy to report that we have one team now.

SPEAKER_14: So with Ed Hamzawi's retirement, we actually combined strategy all the way through delivery.

SPEAKER_14: So now I have under distributed energy solutions.

SPEAKER_14: Really that end to end from really what is our strategy, what are our plan to deliver

SPEAKER_14: the strategy and then actually running the programs to be able to do so.

SPEAKER_14: So as we think about the go to for EVs and what Carl talked is core functions that's

SPEAKER_14: really held in my organization from a distributed energy solution standpoint.

SPEAKER_14: And just like Carl mentioned, DES certainly does not do all this ourselves.

SPEAKER_14: And actually these groups on the right hand side are not inclusive, all inclusive of all

SPEAKER_14: the different teams that touch EV.

SPEAKER_14: But what we wanted to show for the board, because I know there's interest, is where

SPEAKER_14: are those customer facing teams that are really, really key as we think about EVs?

SPEAKER_14: So you've got your strategic account.

SPEAKER_14: So in the commercial side, right, you've got your strategic account advisors.

SPEAKER_14: They are really the primary relationship with the customer and being able to work with our

SPEAKER_14: customer to develop solutions as they're interested in EVs.

SPEAKER_14: You've got commercial development.

SPEAKER_14: As you look at projects and looking at EV charging or putting in EV charging depots,

SPEAKER_14: they are really kind of that place you go first to be able to intake upon that interest.

SPEAKER_14: On the residential side, we launched our call smud first campaign.

SPEAKER_14: It seems like last year, but it might have been two years ago.

SPEAKER_14: I can't remember.

SPEAKER_14: It was a few years ago.

SPEAKER_14: Our customer support center actually supports call smud first.

SPEAKER_14: And really with the growth of customers that are interested in EVs and the ones that have

SPEAKER_14: adopted EVs, really having that support from the customer support center to be able to

Unknown: triage at that first tier and really be able to answer our questions is key.

SPEAKER_14: And then you've got our special assistance program as well as sustainable communities

SPEAKER_14: that support our sustainable communities and community impact plan as well as low income

SPEAKER_14: customers.

SPEAKER_14: And then we've also got additional teams like distribution planning and line design as we

SPEAKER_14: think about capacity needed for EV charging.

SPEAKER_14: They do that project engineering and engineerization support.

SPEAKER_14: And we've got our R&D team that actually looks at technologies that support our EVs and they

SPEAKER_14: do pilots and they do testing prior to going out and rolling out to commercial operations.

SPEAKER_14: So last slide.

SPEAKER_14: Finally, the key thing is what are the key takeaways that I want to make sure you have

SPEAKER_14: is given the headwinds that we're facing to really drive and capture that next wave of

SPEAKER_14: EV adoption and continue to push forward with our goals.

SPEAKER_14: We need to facilitate accessible charging.

SPEAKER_14: We really need to open up to that next tranche of customers for adoption and we need to have

SPEAKER_14: accessibility and we need to make sure that it's affordable, that it's scalable and that

SPEAKER_14: it's grid friendly.

SPEAKER_14: So those are really, really key.

SPEAKER_14: With that policy uncertainty, the things that we're going to be doing is focusing on that

SPEAKER_14: total cost of ownership, focusing on the improved customer experience to make sure we capture

SPEAKER_14: the next phase of EV adoption.

SPEAKER_14: We do need to partner.

SPEAKER_14: We need to pool our resources in the region and make sure that we're more tightly coordinated

SPEAKER_14: in terms of focus for impact.

SPEAKER_14: We are shifting to more online self-service tools where possible that can actually reduce

SPEAKER_14: some of our costs.

SPEAKER_14: We want to be our trusted advisor for our customer.

SPEAKER_14: We've got multiple pathways for them to do so, but we also need to see where we can actually

SPEAKER_14: reduce some of our costs to really be able to be focused on our investments.

SPEAKER_14: We need to continue to leverage state grants given the loss of federal funding and driving

SPEAKER_14: higher utilization of our charging network will actually help from a cost recovery and

SPEAKER_14: be able to help support long-term viability.

SPEAKER_14: So with that, happy to answer any questions and bring back Drew and Carl as also appropriate.

Unknown: Does anybody have questions for Rachel?

Unknown: Dave?

Unknown: Yeah.

Unknown: Thanks, Rachel.

SPEAKER_11: I apologize if I missed something that you or the other speakers touched on.

SPEAKER_11: What is the current status of the building code environment to support electrification

SPEAKER_11: of transportation in our local jurisdictions?

SPEAKER_14: So I don't know them off the top of my head, but I do know that we have EV chargers for

SPEAKER_14: buildings.

SPEAKER_14: There are certain regulations.

SPEAKER_14: I can get them for you because I think there's different tiers as well, similar to kind of

SPEAKER_14: what Carl had sort of spoke about.

SPEAKER_14: So happy to get you those as follow-up of what the different tiers are.

SPEAKER_14: Rachel, I can actually answer that.

SPEAKER_00: I mean, for Sacramento, we really actually had adopted what they call a CalGreen for

SPEAKER_00: EV-ready.

SPEAKER_00: So pretty much all the multifamily units, that's 20 plus.

SPEAKER_00: They got to get a certain percentage of it.

SPEAKER_00: 25 percent is going to be EV-ready.

SPEAKER_00: And then EV chargers, 10 percent of the parking spaces.

SPEAKER_00: And then really, if you think about all the new homes that are being built.

SPEAKER_00: In fact, my daughter is actually in the process of buying a home.

SPEAKER_00: The builders are actually on every single garage giving you the options to put in a

SPEAKER_00: charger and a plug.

SPEAKER_00: Of course, there's costs associated with it.

SPEAKER_00: So almost all new homes now is going to be EV-ready.

SPEAKER_00: So I think Sacramento is one of the counties that actually has worked with the builders

SPEAKER_00: and also developing the developer communities to really actually try to have both public

SPEAKER_00: charging infrastructure ready and then also to have commercial buildings ready, multifamily

SPEAKER_00: and single-family units.

SPEAKER_12: Also really, let me add a real quick.

SPEAKER_12: Sure.

SPEAKER_12: One of the things I staffed a few, no, three or four years ago now was the commercial heavy

SPEAKER_12: duty standards.

SPEAKER_12: So those are still in place.

SPEAKER_12: And it depends on the type of building and its square footage size.

SPEAKER_12: It depends how many KVA of excess capacity.

SPEAKER_12: It ranges between two and 400 as well.

SPEAKER_12: What I don't know is if that's getting caught up in the recent legal changes to the building

SPEAKER_12: code and not letting them make any changes for, I think, it was five years.

SPEAKER_12: So that's interesting.

SPEAKER_12: All right.

Unknown: Sorry.

Unknown: Is that it?

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

SPEAKER_11: I just wanted to comment that I was really struck by the information that was presented

SPEAKER_11: about electric vehicle actually saves each household $2,000 a year.

SPEAKER_11: And I'm just...

SPEAKER_11: That's a really big number for a lot of households.

SPEAKER_11: And it's really sad that the number of electric vehicles that are forecast is going to be

SPEAKER_11: three million less.

SPEAKER_11: So that's like billions of dollars that are leaving communities all over.

SPEAKER_11: But I'd really like to see us sort of drive home that point to the community because I

SPEAKER_11: don't think people quite understand how much less expensive it is to operate an electric

SPEAKER_11: vehicle.

SPEAKER_11: So even though it's been pretty obvious for quite a while.

SPEAKER_14: Yeah.

SPEAKER_14: I think we've done the advertisement as sort of a comparison on the gallon to gas.

SPEAKER_14: But maybe the magnitude of just the total dollar alone, especially because you can also

SPEAKER_14: potentially save on that maintenance piece, is something we should look more into.

Unknown: Thanks.

Unknown: Thank you, Rachel.

SPEAKER_01: I tell you, I think this is a great presentation.

SPEAKER_01: Really good goals and different things that you all are working on.

SPEAKER_01: I guess I still feel like we're not doing a whole lot to build EV infrastructure with

SPEAKER_01: partners.

SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's not our goal.

SPEAKER_01: But I'm an EV owner too, and I have that same experience of when I'm at home, I don't

SPEAKER_01: worry about it at all.

SPEAKER_01: But when I'm going to different places, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of EV charging.

SPEAKER_01: And so I'm just wondering, isn't there a way to partner with an EV company that is stable

SPEAKER_01: and not going to go out of business in two years to get more of the chargers in?

SPEAKER_01: And we didn't get numbers on how many were going into multifamily and stuff.

SPEAKER_01: So it's hard for me to wrap my head around.

SPEAKER_01: Are we really putting a lot more chargers out there?

SPEAKER_14: And maybe what I should do next time is show you the incremental add of the chargers.

SPEAKER_14: And that can definitely be added to our ZCP update too, of how many incremental chargers

SPEAKER_14: we're adding every year.

SPEAKER_14: Because like I said, we have grant funded chargers, we've got incentives for chargers,

SPEAKER_14: and we're actually doing really, really well.

SPEAKER_14: But I did not go into all the details today because it was really about the strategy versus

SPEAKER_14: all the tactics and all the results.

SPEAKER_14: That's usually our ZCP update.

SPEAKER_14: But I think that that's good feedback of understanding what that incremental build is every year.

SPEAKER_14: And maybe we can even do, like maybe I can do a map where we show how it's evolving over

SPEAKER_14: time so you can see the geographical dispersion as well.

SPEAKER_14: So maybe that's something that I could do to help.

SPEAKER_01: Well that would be fabulous.

SPEAKER_01: The other thing is helping our customers overcome the obstacles of getting an EV charger in.

SPEAKER_01: And I know I've brought this issue to government affairs several times, but there are some

SPEAKER_01: people who don't have garages and have nowhere to plug in their electric vehicle.

SPEAKER_01: They have no place to park it except on the street.

SPEAKER_01: And I know that I was involved in getting the dialogue going with the city, but then

SPEAKER_01: it just seemed to kind of disappear.

SPEAKER_01: But that's an issue out there, is people who have an electric vehicle but they have to

SPEAKER_01: park it on the street and pull out an extension cord.

SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't seem like the best thing to do.

SPEAKER_01: And the other folk who wanted an EV charger was a gas station.

SPEAKER_01: And we couldn't do anything to help them overcome the obstacles.

SPEAKER_01: So I just feel like we should be doing more to help the people who really want to do something.

SPEAKER_01: And the gentleman who still doesn't have a way to charge his car, it's been probably

SPEAKER_01: three years.

SPEAKER_01: I appreciate the feedback.

SPEAKER_14: And I think this is where, and like I said, maybe sharing some more of the numbers and

SPEAKER_14: where they're going in and maybe what I don't want to call it the problem to solve.

SPEAKER_14: But the reason why we wrote out the strategy of the challenges and the solutions or the

SPEAKER_14: strategies is recognition that accessible charging, affordable charging are key issues

SPEAKER_14: that we need to address.

SPEAKER_14: And so that's why we actually have embarked on a lot of encouragement of multifamily charging,

SPEAKER_14: which can be a challenge.

SPEAKER_14: But we're doing not only charging at multifamily communities, but also doing multifamily charging

SPEAKER_14: adjacent.

SPEAKER_14: So having public charging near multifamily where we do see opportunities.

SPEAKER_14: So for those communities that might not have it there, that they can access it nearby.

SPEAKER_14: I don't know, Drew, or I don't know if Carl's still on if there's anything you guys want

SPEAKER_14: to speak to relative to the challenges of accessible charging.

SPEAKER_14: But we are definitely working on a multifaceted basis to be able to address some of those

SPEAKER_14: challenges.

Unknown: Thank you.

Unknown: Yeah.

Unknown: And I know after this, I was just getting all the people in the room.

SPEAKER_04: Heidi, I do see your hand up.

SPEAKER_04: But Drew, did you have some comments?

Unknown: I was just going to say, you guys are so far ahead of everybody else like everybody else.

SPEAKER_13: I don't want that to put the brakes on, but I do want to say that SMUD in Sacramento are

SPEAKER_13: exceptional in terms of in placement of actual reports, exceptional.

SPEAKER_13: So I know it feels like you should be doing more, but I think directionally, you are definitely

SPEAKER_13: on pace.

Unknown: Thank you.

Unknown: Heidi, did you have a question or a comment?

SPEAKER_15: Thank you.

SPEAKER_15: Just a couple things.

SPEAKER_15: I agree that I think we need to tell that story about keeping money in the community.

SPEAKER_15: I don't think people understand that at all.

SPEAKER_15: I don't think I understood it to the level I heard it tonight.

SPEAKER_15: So I think that's going to be a selling point more than we might think to a lot of folks.

SPEAKER_15: So mentioning the amenities, again, I didn't see that in the key messages and getting more

SPEAKER_15: amenities where people charge.

SPEAKER_15: I still think that's how we're going to get the next batch of people to adopt.

SPEAKER_15: And then I was just asking Rachel on regional partnering, what kind of partnering are you

SPEAKER_15: talking about specifically?

SPEAKER_15: Like with who to do what?

SPEAKER_14: You are familiar with the four agencies that we partner with.

SPEAKER_14: We've got AQMD, SACOG, SACRT, and we the Sacramento metropolitan air quality management

SPEAKER_14: district, Sacramento regional transit and Sacramento area council of governments.

SPEAKER_14: And Sacramento SMAQMD is one that we actually can stack incentives on.

SPEAKER_14: They actually offer a number of incentives for both light duty with EV vehicles, with

SPEAKER_14: clean cars for all.

SPEAKER_14: They also have a lot of incentives with regards to medium and heavy duty vehicles.

SPEAKER_14: So those are opportunities for us to partner and stack dollars as we think about pooling

SPEAKER_14: of resources that we're actually working with them.

SPEAKER_14: We've worked with them for many, many years in coordination but are continuing to do so,

SPEAKER_14: especially as we think about looking at our goals and going into our next integrated resource

SPEAKER_14: plan too is what are those opportunities to work more closely together on areas where

SPEAKER_14: there are things.

SPEAKER_14: You're probably also familiar that there's the CPRG, the climate pollution reduction

SPEAKER_14: grant work that SMAQMD is also leading, that a lot of the local jurisdictions have been

SPEAKER_14: putting into their strategies relative to their climate action plans relative to electrification,

SPEAKER_14: whether it's buildings and transportation.

SPEAKER_14: So opportunities to do that with different local efforts as well.

SPEAKER_14: So there's a number of ones and really needing to be more focused, right?

SPEAKER_14: But instead of each of us offering our own thing, the more that we can coordinate so

SPEAKER_14: that we've got more of that impact, especially as we stack the dollars, is going to be key.

Unknown: Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_15: And I think that a lot of the jurisdictions are relying heavily on us to meet their climate

SPEAKER_15: action plans.

SPEAKER_15: But one of the things they could really do to help us meet the goals for everybody is

SPEAKER_15: to make it easier for people to charge.

SPEAKER_15: Because I know that Director Herbert's been bringing this up, but it's been a problem,

SPEAKER_15: especially in the urban areas, there are just not enough chargers in the downtown area.

SPEAKER_15: When I went to Paris, I mean, there was literally a charger in the middle of every block and

SPEAKER_15: they were free as long as you used them, parked there with an AV and used them.

SPEAKER_15: So we just haven't made it that convenient yet.

SPEAKER_15: And until we do, I think it's going to just be hard.

SPEAKER_15: But thank you so much.

SPEAKER_15: I mean, there's so much good work, as was said.

SPEAKER_15: It's been done and we really appreciate all that you've put into it.

SPEAKER_15: So thank you very much for the presentation and we'll just keep charging ahead.

SPEAKER_15: Thank you.

SPEAKER_15: Did anybody, Dave, you have another question?

Unknown: Yeah, a couple more thoughts.

SPEAKER_11: I was very interested in the point that the vast majority of charging is done at home.

SPEAKER_11: Before people do that, they have this anxiety of, oh, well, I don't see chargers all over

SPEAKER_11: the place.

SPEAKER_11: And then once they actually have an electric vehicle, they realize, oh, as long as I plug

SPEAKER_11: it in every night and don't forget to do that, that goes away because they can get

SPEAKER_11: the vast majority of their driving done.

SPEAKER_11: And I think it's really important that we focus on that, on that phenomenon.

SPEAKER_11: And if we can make things really visible, but not with the idea that we're going to

SPEAKER_11: provide all this charging that people just need to see.

SPEAKER_11: Yes.

SPEAKER_11: It's a balance.

SPEAKER_11: We're going to put a lot of money into chargers that are kind of there almost for show.

SPEAKER_11: I realize that there's utility to them as well and it is helpful to have a more robust

SPEAKER_11: publicly available charging.

SPEAKER_11: But I think we really need to utilize that phenomenon and not over-invest in charging

SPEAKER_11: that's really not going to be used a lot.

SPEAKER_11: And then...

Unknown: And the other thing is, I'm wondering if we have information and I'm very sympathetic

SPEAKER_11: to the people who want to have an electric vehicle or who do have an electric vehicle

SPEAKER_11: but don't have off-street parking and don't really want to be running extension cords.

SPEAKER_11: Those strike me as being very expensive fixes.

SPEAKER_11: And I'm wondering, do we know how many people or how many households are in that situation

SPEAKER_11: versus the number of households that do have off-street parking?

SPEAKER_11: Because if we can get a lot, I just want to make sure that we focus our attention and

SPEAKER_11: resources where we're going to get the biggest bang.

SPEAKER_11: Not forgetting about those people, but we also have a need to get more EVs on the road

SPEAKER_11: in general.

SPEAKER_11: Yeah, I think, you know, I don't know that we have those numbers.

SPEAKER_14: I don't have them off the top of my head, but I will follow up with staff to kind of

SPEAKER_14: figure out what that looks like.

SPEAKER_14: The other thing, as we mentioned, is with the implementation of the EV charging network

SPEAKER_14: and the EV app that allows us to potentially programmatically help reduce the cost of public

SPEAKER_14: EV charging to make it more cost comparable, then it goes back to, is there something available

SPEAKER_14: nearby you that's public charging?

SPEAKER_14: So it might not be your curb right in front of your house, but is at least priced comparably

SPEAKER_14: from a single-family home standpoint to be able to give you that affordable, accessible

SPEAKER_14: charging that might be an alternative.

SPEAKER_14: I think the one thing, and this gets to that last one about driving higher utilization,

SPEAKER_14: is in order for that financial business model to work to be able to help reduce the pricing

SPEAKER_14: for some, we have to drive higher utilization of those EV charging.

SPEAKER_14: So that kind of goes to your point of finding that strategic balance of putting out charging

SPEAKER_14: for visibility, especially in areas where people might not see that they've got charging,

SPEAKER_14: to encourage them to adopt EVs, but at the same time also not over-investing in EV charging

SPEAKER_14: that's only going to be used from a visibility perception standpoint but with low utilization.

SPEAKER_14: So it is a bit of a sweet spot, and I think we are and need to continue to be very strategic

SPEAKER_14: on where we place them to ensure we've got that visibility and coverage while at the

SPEAKER_14: same time that higher utilization helps support the financial model.

SPEAKER_11: Thank you.

SPEAKER_11: And I'm kind of thinking in terms of the knowledge that I have just in my head of what various

SPEAKER_11: neighborhoods are like.

SPEAKER_11: Yeah.

SPEAKER_11: There are certain neighborhoods where nobody's got off-street parking, and it seems as if

SPEAKER_11: we can identify clusters, neighborhoods where there's a high concentration of homes that

SPEAKER_11: are in that situation, that that might be the best places to have those, I don't know,

SPEAKER_11: charging nodes or something like that.

SPEAKER_11: Because it's certainly not the case that all neighborhoods are lacking or broadly lacking

SPEAKER_11: off-street parking.

SPEAKER_11: So thank you.

SPEAKER_11: Okay.

Unknown: Any other questions?

SPEAKER_04: I did appreciate your presentation, and I think that when we do launch additional network

SPEAKER_04: charging, I think that will help.

SPEAKER_04: Because no matter what you do, some people's housing situations are never going to be,

SPEAKER_04: especially in the downtown core.

SPEAKER_04: And I think that's where the biggest deficit is.

SPEAKER_04: Because for time I did stay downtown quite a bit, and having a large charge was very

SPEAKER_04: challenging because on 11th and ironically right across the street from ACMDs where I

SPEAKER_04: used to work, and there was only two chargers outside of their parking lot for that whole

SPEAKER_04: six-block radius.

SPEAKER_04: So hopefully with our program we can see that if that will make an impact because to many

SPEAKER_04: people's point, it can be very expensive to help one or two people.

SPEAKER_04: So hopefully this will help.

SPEAKER_04: So I just wanted to bring Drew and Carl back because we did present a ton of information,

SPEAKER_04: and it shows how well we are doing.

SPEAKER_04: But I know your expertise, sometimes we do too much in one area and not enough in another.

SPEAKER_04: We have tasked some high lofty goals to our staff.

SPEAKER_04: Are there any areas where do you see that we could shift or support more or do less

SPEAKER_04: of or that we're not addressing or we're addressing too highly?

SPEAKER_04: I know this is just my personal opinion.

SPEAKER_04: I'm one board member.

SPEAKER_04: But unless for me, again, my personal opinion, unless it's fully funded by grants, I never

SPEAKER_04: want to see another DC fast charger in the district as someone who's owned an electric

SPEAKER_04: car for 13 years.

SPEAKER_04: Again, personal opinion just because Carl's chart of $100,000 for one DC fast charger.

SPEAKER_04: I know there's grant funding, but it's a hard pill for me because I know it's not just $100,000.

SPEAKER_04: I think when I saw one of ours, it's like over $250,000.

SPEAKER_04: So it's expensive.

SPEAKER_04: Again, personal opinion.

SPEAKER_04: So is there anything that maybe we could shift or do more in one area or keep doing everything

SPEAKER_04: and see if we can find money for something else that we're not doing?

SPEAKER_04: Just want to see what else.

SPEAKER_13: Carl, you want to go first?

Unknown: Sure, I'd be happy to.

SPEAKER_07: Well one is, I haven't done a due diligence on the SMUD programs, but I'll give you what

SPEAKER_07: I see as the biggest bang for the buck for really almost all utilities.

SPEAKER_07: And I'll also lead with I think the SMUD strategy, which I have done a deep dive in.

SPEAKER_07: I co-taught a class with Eric for the American Public Power Association, and I really got

SPEAKER_07: a list.

SPEAKER_07: We did an all-day workshop quite a bit on the SMUD thinking and strategy as well as

SPEAKER_07: I had them present to the console as well.

SPEAKER_07: And so I think your strategy vision and how you approach a strategy is best in class.

SPEAKER_07: It's very good.

SPEAKER_07: The bang for the buck things is for commercial customers.

SPEAKER_07: So commercial is both fleet electrification as well as third-party charging providers.

SPEAKER_07: Those are two very important, I think, outcomes that could really help move the needle forward.

SPEAKER_07: In one of my backup slides, I look at the benchmarking survey, which shows what utilities

SPEAKER_07: are investing in now.

SPEAKER_07: And I think it's a pretty decent list.

SPEAKER_07: It's advisory services with a focus on time of delivery.

SPEAKER_07: I am familiar with the EPRI EVS to scale, and it's okay.

SPEAKER_07: But I'm really glad to see that.

SPEAKER_07: I'm a big fan of Brita as well.

SPEAKER_07: I think Origin Rockland, their rapid site assessment technology and what they do template

SPEAKER_07: is even stronger.

SPEAKER_07: So it's something you might want to consider, and that was a key part of driving that delivery

SPEAKER_07: down.

SPEAKER_07: And then also potentially consider Make Ready.

SPEAKER_07: And then the third most popular what utilities are doing for that demographic is some sort

SPEAKER_07: of rates.

SPEAKER_07: Generally around time of use or demand charge reduction.

SPEAKER_07: So Make Ready rates, advisory services.

SPEAKER_07: For residential customers, I'm not familiar with this mud strategy on social media or

SPEAKER_07: traditional marketing.

SPEAKER_07: Ride-in drives are hugely effective because we look at those barriers of residential customers,

SPEAKER_07: you know, range and all those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_07: And nothing beats a button and a seat to help them push the needle over.

SPEAKER_07: All adoption is already fairly good.

SPEAKER_07: But ride-in drives, we see a lot of efficacy.

SPEAKER_07: Ammon Missouri is a best in class on ride-in drives and partnering with auto dealerships.

SPEAKER_07: And that's another outlet for that as well as similar is partnering with your auto dealerships

SPEAKER_07: and the auto car shows, which every city has can be highly effective in getting the word

SPEAKER_07: out.

SPEAKER_07: And as well as the public charging, which was talked about quite a bit, I find multifamily

SPEAKER_07: and workplace level one, level two, highly effective and cost and very cost effective

SPEAKER_07: there as well.

SPEAKER_07: So those are just kind of some of my bang, you know, Carl's bang for the buck wish list

SPEAKER_07: for all utilities.

SPEAKER_07: Whether smut is already hitting out of the park or maybe wants to fill in more work on

SPEAKER_07: that.

SPEAKER_07: I don't have a specific opinion on those.

SPEAKER_13: So I obviously, you know, agree with almost everything, everything that Carl says.

SPEAKER_13: I'm going to take slightly different tech, a KPMG kind of view on this.

SPEAKER_13: It's strong on kind of the tax and accounting side of things.

SPEAKER_13: There is, I don't know if you, everyone's familiar with what a K-shaped economy is.

SPEAKER_13: It's what we're in now where there's a group of our community that are doing very well

SPEAKER_13: financially and there's a large group that is doing not so well.

SPEAKER_13: And that K-shaped economy continues to expand and that's kind of where we are.

SPEAKER_13: And so the first thing that I think needs to be addressed, and I don't think this is

SPEAKER_13: an oversight.

SPEAKER_13: I just think that it's a new paradigm.

SPEAKER_13: There is an affordability gap that is going to get worse.

SPEAKER_13: Now, Rachel mentioned that $50,000 cost for a new car.

SPEAKER_13: That is the most real thing you've ever seen because that is causing our car park, which

SPEAKER_13: is kind of the average age of vehicles in the United States to go from where we thought

SPEAKER_13: was the limit, which was about nine and a half years, where it is now, which is 12 and

SPEAKER_13: a half years, which is the average age of cars on the streets now.

SPEAKER_13: And that goes and touches on things like emission problems and maintenance problems and cost

SPEAKER_13: safety, new features, things like that.

SPEAKER_13: All those, this K-shaped economy is driving those.

SPEAKER_13: And so one of the things that I think can be done is addressing kind of the affordability

SPEAKER_13: side of this.

SPEAKER_13: And that's encouraging residents to not only understand about EVs, but also putting in

SPEAKER_13: mechanisms to help them to afford it, right?

SPEAKER_13: One of the individuals I wanted to be here today who can't is Mike Dom.

SPEAKER_13: He's the chief commercial officer from Golden One Credit Union.

SPEAKER_13: Put in some type of mechanism to allow for low-income customers to specifically get very

SPEAKER_13: reasonable rates and high approval frequencies to buy specifically EVs.

SPEAKER_13: Because once they get into EV, they save money, it's a safer vehicle, and they find out that

SPEAKER_13: they can operate it.

SPEAKER_13: So that's one of those.

SPEAKER_13: And I am not sure what the legal requirements are.

Unknown: Looking at the chief legal officer, like, I know there's going to be issues there, but

SPEAKER_13: helping customers, low-income customers, getting the EVs financially is critical.

SPEAKER_13: The next thing is Duke Energy has a program.

SPEAKER_13: A friend of mine, Lon Huber, started.

SPEAKER_13: It's $30 off of charging at night if you go on the demand reduction program, right?

SPEAKER_13: And so what you're trading is, we're going to give you $30 worth of energy at night if

SPEAKER_13: you allow us to modulate your charging and your thermostat.

SPEAKER_13: The break-even was like 12 days on that.

SPEAKER_13: It's a no-brainer.

SPEAKER_13: It's a win for the utility.

SPEAKER_13: It's a win for the community.

SPEAKER_13: And from the perspective of the customer, they're getting something of greater value

SPEAKER_13: than what they're giving up, which is like the ability to modulate the thermostat or

SPEAKER_13: their charging during the day.

SPEAKER_13: And it's at night, and it's very well done and executed.

SPEAKER_13: The last thing, and probably the most important thing, is spreading the word about trust.

SPEAKER_13: Who do you trust more?

SPEAKER_13: Do you trust ExxonMobil, Chevron, Shell, or do you trust SMUD?

SPEAKER_13: That is the fundamental question that's at hand.

SPEAKER_13: Who do you trust with your transportation fueling requirements?

SPEAKER_13: That is the word that I would use.

SPEAKER_13: You have a 97% customer experience rating.

SPEAKER_13: That is so far and away more important and better than anything I've ever seen in the

SPEAKER_13: industry.

Unknown: And it's game-changing.

Unknown: I would scream that from the high heavens.

SPEAKER_13: So the last thing is, in your marketing, in your community outreach, this is a trust issue.

SPEAKER_13: Do you trust SMUD, who's been your partner for years, who's there when you need them,

SPEAKER_13: who keeps the lights on, who keeps the lights low?

SPEAKER_13: I mean, the price is low.

SPEAKER_13: Or do you trust Exxon, Shell, Valero, or anyone else with your transportation requirements?

SPEAKER_13: To me, that is the difference.

SPEAKER_07: Yeah, and I would just, one last note, and I think I really like what Drew said there,

Unknown: but especially addressing that K-shaped economy, is I'll use a stat that Drew's organization

SPEAKER_07: has used and researched, is the percentage of household budget going to transportation

SPEAKER_07: for a low-income family is around 30%.

SPEAKER_07: It's the second largest expense outside of housing.

SPEAKER_07: The utility bill is 3%, 4%.

SPEAKER_07: So we as utilities do all these things.

SPEAKER_07: Well, how can we make the utility bill cheaper?

SPEAKER_07: But if you can put SMUD values and SMUD affordability into the transportation wedge of that household

SPEAKER_07: budget, you're going to have a much bigger impact than you ever could on electric utility

SPEAKER_07: bill.

SPEAKER_07: It's also a way to bring in the SMUD values to have a much bigger impact, especially in

SPEAKER_07: families of need in that K-shaped economy.

SPEAKER_04: Thank you.

SPEAKER_04: I'm glad to hear that I think we're doing almost all the things that you two suggested.

SPEAKER_04: So thank you for patting the SMUD staff on the back.

SPEAKER_04: So I appreciate you two coming.

SPEAKER_04: We do have one speaker, and we do have an additional agenda item.

SPEAKER_04: So Mr. Wright, if you would like to...

SPEAKER_04: Is this the right time, Mike?

SPEAKER_04: If you'd like to provide your comments.

SPEAKER_04: And again, thank you, Carl and Drew, and we'll be around afterwards.

Unknown: Thanks.

Unknown: David Wright for 350 Sacramento.

SPEAKER_09: Hi to everybody.

SPEAKER_09: Good to be here.

SPEAKER_09: Good to see you.

SPEAKER_09: And what a wonderful presentation, Rachel Wong and the Distributed Energy Solutions

SPEAKER_09: Group.

SPEAKER_09: Lots of thank yous and praise for pursuing more charging stations, up to the point where

SPEAKER_09: they are providing enough visible charging to get people to buy cars.

SPEAKER_09: My experience is that the kind of charging station I use as an EV owner is a rapid charger

SPEAKER_09: because I only need it when I need it, right?

SPEAKER_09: When I'm running low, I need some charge now, and I don't want to wait five hours to have

SPEAKER_09: enough to get home.

SPEAKER_09: So I think the fast chargers are, or somewhat fast chargers are probably the best idea,

SPEAKER_09: except for your multifamily kind of strategies.

SPEAKER_09: Those are wonderful.

SPEAKER_09: And I also really would praise the idea of workplace daytime charging, especially, I'm

SPEAKER_09: sure you guys have thought about having this in conjunction with like a membership kind

SPEAKER_09: of a program where members would get reduced rates, and ideally you would have people who

SPEAKER_09: have V2G so that they could charge during the daytime when you have negative energy

SPEAKER_09: value, right?

SPEAKER_09: And then they go home and plug their vehicle into the grid and you can reduce the demand

SPEAKER_09: on the system.

SPEAKER_09: Another thing about that kind of a strategy is it seems like it would be helpful for the

SPEAKER_09: multifamily issue, right?

SPEAKER_09: If you have people who can't charge at home but they can charge at work on a SMUD membership

SPEAKER_09: program, especially, maybe they can't be a V2G, maybe you could have like an EPRA program

SPEAKER_09: for members of the SMUD charging network, especially for daytime workplace charging.

SPEAKER_09: And lastly, I would doubly encourage the thing that Mr. Higgins talked about, which was some

SPEAKER_09: kind of way of helping people over the cost hump, right?

SPEAKER_09: I know from having an electric car that it's way cheaper than having a gas car, right?

SPEAKER_09: But it's a little more expensive than a gas car.

SPEAKER_09: So if SMUD can say whatever way you can, a loan or a reduction of their advance on

SPEAKER_09: their electric bill or something like that, to help them over that cost hump to be able

SPEAKER_09: to buy an electric car and then they would save that money in the ownership of the electric

SPEAKER_09: car and be able to pay their pay back, pay SMUD back.

SPEAKER_09: Thank you.

Unknown: So was there a person on the line?

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we do have one comment from John.

SPEAKER_06: Okay, John.

SPEAKER_08: Hello, this is John Weber.

SPEAKER_08: Can you hear me?

SPEAKER_08: Can you hear me?

Unknown: Yes.

SPEAKER_08: Okay.

SPEAKER_08: All right.

SPEAKER_08: Great.

SPEAKER_08: Good evening, Chair, board and committee members.

SPEAKER_08: Thank you very much, Rachel, Carl and Drew.

SPEAKER_08: If you guys didn't know and ladies didn't know this already, Drew is kind of a legend

SPEAKER_08: in Texas.

SPEAKER_08: He's phenomenal in his pursuit to advance electrification of transportation.

SPEAKER_08: Just want to let you know that.

SPEAKER_08: Also I really thought the presentations were excellent.

SPEAKER_08: I believe our 2030 zero carbon commitment can't be met affordably without utilizing

SPEAKER_08: EV batteries for grid storage.

SPEAKER_08: This should be a priority.

SPEAKER_08: And I was just speaking with one of the product development people for Enphase.

SPEAKER_08: Their new bi-directional charger is going to be about $4,000 coming out anytime.

SPEAKER_08: So they are getting much more affordable.

SPEAKER_08: I did find the presentation had great information about the impact of EVs to the local economic

SPEAKER_08: benefit of the people in the local area.

SPEAKER_08: There are also a place that I see EV chargers utilized all the time are the public libraries,

SPEAKER_08: the Sacramento public libraries.

SPEAKER_08: Some of them have one, some have two, but they are always being used.

SPEAKER_08: It would be great if SMUD could help add additional units.

SPEAKER_08: These are old, old EV chargers.

SPEAKER_08: But they are still working.

SPEAKER_08: And they are heavily used all the time during the hours of the library or after hours of

SPEAKER_08: the library.

SPEAKER_08: People really utilize those.

SPEAKER_08: Thank you for everything else and have a good evening.

Unknown: Just real quick, I think for me one of the overarching thoughts is the importance of

SPEAKER_12: keeping our rates low.

SPEAKER_12: It is ultimately something we want to keep an eye on.

SPEAKER_12: We have so many competing goals.

SPEAKER_12: Keeping charging affordable is a matter of low rates.

SPEAKER_12: You see people who are paying 50 or 60 cents a kilowatt hour.

SPEAKER_12: It is totally trashed as the economics of owning an EV.

SPEAKER_12: So it is something we want to keep an eye on.

SPEAKER_12: Just two or three quick things.

SPEAKER_12: One, I definitely think we need to try to be more serious about vehicle grid integration,

SPEAKER_12: about the hardware that it takes to actually do it.

SPEAKER_12: If a solar inverter is $3,000 and we hear about a grid interactive charger for four,

SPEAKER_12: it probably only has a 10 or 15 year lifespan at most.

SPEAKER_12: Is there a demand response value to offset $500 a year?

SPEAKER_12: I think those are big questions.

SPEAKER_12: We want to make sure if the hardware is available, a list of hardware that is available, whatever

SPEAKER_12: incentive we deem appropriate for it, if any.

SPEAKER_12: Then making sure it is integrated into our ADMS and our Derm system that is visible and

SPEAKER_12: dispatchable.

SPEAKER_12: Which ultimately what automated demand response needs to be.

SPEAKER_12: It needs to be something that our grid operators can use to get value of it.

SPEAKER_12: You see lots of talk about this in California, but you are not seeing the actual hardware

SPEAKER_12: going out there.

SPEAKER_12: People can actually do it.

SPEAKER_12: It is something that remains on my mind.

SPEAKER_12: I am not sure if it will get there any time in decades, quite honestly.

SPEAKER_12: But it is something that needs to be serious about.

SPEAKER_12: The other thing I wanted to quickly mention is behavioral psychology.

SPEAKER_12: A lot of what David Ryan and John Weber were talking about tonight is how do you psychologically

SPEAKER_12: get people to take action.

SPEAKER_12: For me, I think saying free charging for a year.

SPEAKER_12: We used to have the charge free for two years.

SPEAKER_12: Absolutely excellent advertising campaigns to get people to take action.

SPEAKER_12: Rachel put up that slide towards the end about some of the specific strategies we were going

SPEAKER_12: to use.

SPEAKER_12: But it definitely wants staff to be thinking about what are creative ways that we can use

SPEAKER_12: psychology to get where we want to go.

SPEAKER_12: And you can come up with all kinds of ideas.

SPEAKER_12: I could see us saying, okay, we are not going to give you a $500 or $1000 rebate after the

SPEAKER_12: electrician installs it.

SPEAKER_12: The electrician is going to come and install it and give you a free home inspection.

SPEAKER_12: Something really, really easy.

SPEAKER_12: These are the kinds of things we should be thinking hard about as well.

SPEAKER_12: That is everything I have to say.

SPEAKER_12: I definitely want to thank you guys for coming out and making the journey.

SPEAKER_12: I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_12: We will probably see you with energy thoughts in a few months or several months.

SPEAKER_12: And the other thing, I noticed the Energize program pathway opened for the megawatt charging

SPEAKER_12: standard.

SPEAKER_12: So if we have any, Tesla put in a slew of rebate applications for their semis in the

SPEAKER_12: program's opening.

SPEAKER_12: So that would be a great opportunity to make sure we are lined up with our partners to

SPEAKER_12: get high power charging installed for cheap.

SPEAKER_12: Thank you so much.

Unknown: Great.

SPEAKER_04: Anything else?

SPEAKER_04: We do have a second agenda item.

SPEAKER_04: Item number two.

SPEAKER_04: That was it in terms of speakers.

SPEAKER_04: To discuss authorizing the CEO to negotiate and award a contract to CloudGen for field

SPEAKER_04: service management associated with implementation of services from November this year to 2030,

SPEAKER_04: not to exceed amount of $5.699 million.

Unknown: Good evening.

SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Chair.

SPEAKER_02: Bowie Thompson.

SPEAKER_02: And thank you to the board of directors for your time this evening.

SPEAKER_02: My ask this evening is to request the authorization for and not to exceed amount of $5,699,739.

SPEAKER_02: I want to share just a little bit of background in our journey with Salesforce that started

SPEAKER_02: with our field service management back in production in September of 2019 when we delivered

SPEAKER_02: the first installation for line inspectors for scheduling and crew management.

SPEAKER_02: Over the course of six years, we then did deploy 300 CLIC users and additional seven

SPEAKER_02: work groups.

SPEAKER_02: Salesforce purchased CLIC in August of 2019.

SPEAKER_02: After the purchase, they did determine that CLIC would not be a go forward solution for

SPEAKER_02: Salesforce.

SPEAKER_02: And then they announced the end of life for the Cloud version of CLIC that would be December

SPEAKER_02: 31, 2026.

Unknown: Due to the end of life, we're looking to deploy our field service management functionality

SPEAKER_02: onto Cloud Gen.

SPEAKER_02: We'll first deploy our existing users and work groups, and then we will deploy future

SPEAKER_02: work groups.

SPEAKER_02: Cloud Gen has a strong focus in utility and public service.

SPEAKER_02: Their solution is not only secure and scalable, but it's highly configurable with intelligent,

SPEAKER_02: predictive scheduling and embedded AI.

SPEAKER_02: They deliver functionality such as crew availability, skill sets, job priorities, and real-time

SPEAKER_02: traffic conditions.

SPEAKER_02: They deliver automated work bundling to reduce time and response and also to reduce truck

SPEAKER_02: roles.

SPEAKER_02: They offer digital forms, which is a gap that we have today with CLIC, and some of our peer

SPEAKER_02: utilities such as Puget Energy and Sonomish have deployed Cloud Gen as they've replaced

SPEAKER_02: CLIC.

SPEAKER_02: We're excited to also be able to have the support from Cloud Gen University, which has

SPEAKER_02: a complete delivery of documentation, online support, as well as demand training videos

SPEAKER_02: and interactive learning modules for the end users.

SPEAKER_02: The RFP process to replace CLIC software was carefully structured and supported by a very

SPEAKER_02: seasoned team.

SPEAKER_02: Our goal was to find a technology that met the current needs of our CLIC users and would

SPEAKER_02: support us in the future as we deploy future work groups and use cases.

SPEAKER_02: We needed to ensure we found a vendor that could not only support the end date of December

SPEAKER_02: 2026, but also had the ability to integrate with our existing and future technologies.

SPEAKER_02: The RFP was posted for five weeks.

SPEAKER_02: The procurement team notified over 26 potential vendors, and we received 91 interest of download

SPEAKER_02: for the RFP.

Unknown: 15 potential bidders joined the pre-bid conference, and SMUD received 10 proposals.

SPEAKER_02: The RFP was reviewed by a cross-functional team, which include the project team, IT,

SPEAKER_02: business needs, CLIC end users, as well as leads for training and change management.

SPEAKER_02: The proposed solution delivered a mix of technical and functional requirements to support the

SPEAKER_02: software solution.

SPEAKER_02: For the procurement award, we had five proposers that passed the mandatory questions and provided

SPEAKER_02: demos to the end users and core team.

SPEAKER_02: The list of questions and demo requirements were shared with the bidders prior.

SPEAKER_02: After this lengthy and detailed process, CloudGen was ranked number one and was determined to

SPEAKER_02: be the winning vendor.

SPEAKER_02: While we had several very qualified vendors, CloudGen's submitted bid, their software solution,

SPEAKER_02: and their pricing components showed that they were the vendor that could best meet

SPEAKER_02: our needs.

SPEAKER_02: We would be entering into a five-year fixed price contract with CloudGen, and do want

SPEAKER_02: to thank Supply Chain for negotiating a savings of 12.92 percent.

SPEAKER_02: So with that, I want to thank you for your time this evening, and would it be happy to

SPEAKER_02: take any questions?

SPEAKER_02: Mr. Chair, Rosanna has a question.

SPEAKER_01: Can you go back to the bid sheet where it was evaluated?

SPEAKER_01: Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at the seed credit, and CloudGen has a very small amount, and two of the other

SPEAKER_01: bidders have a huge amount.

SPEAKER_01: What's driving that?

SPEAKER_02: Sure.

SPEAKER_02: So CloudGen's going to use a seed vendor, Agile Global Solutions.

SPEAKER_02: They're going to use the AGS vendor to support them with some project management, change

SPEAKER_02: management, and some integration services.

SPEAKER_02: They did propose a reduced percentage in the seed category.

SPEAKER_02: The seed, you can see, is made up of 10 points, so they did get an allocation.

SPEAKER_02: Their ranking was based on the 93.10 score out of 100, the total score.

Unknown: Yes.

SPEAKER_02: Okay.

SPEAKER_01: I understand that.

SPEAKER_01: What I'm not understanding is how could the smart energy systems folks and the over-it

SPEAKER_01: international folks be spending $209,000 for seed, and it's just 21 for CloudGen?

Unknown: Sure.

SPEAKER_02: They had a reduced scope.

SPEAKER_02: CloudGen wanted to use their internal expertise to deliver.

SPEAKER_02: They do have an option if they would like to expand seed services moving forward, but

SPEAKER_02: at this point in time, they're limiting it to project management, change management,

SPEAKER_02: and a little bit of integration.

Unknown: Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: Do you have any other questions?

Unknown: I just had some comments.

SPEAKER_04: I've worked with CloudGen before.

SPEAKER_04: I do see that SDW is a million dollars more, so I get that their pricing is quite higher,

SPEAKER_04: but as someone that has evaluated field service systems, I guess I've always awarded more

SPEAKER_04: and tended more to vendors that are either I'm working with now or continuing because

SPEAKER_04: everybody says they integrate.

SPEAKER_04: Integrations are not clean or easy with vendors that you don't work with, and I know we're

SPEAKER_04: working with SDW, their pricing is high.

SPEAKER_04: I get it, so I'm just going to put that out there.

SPEAKER_04: Secondarily, I hope that our experience with their customer support and asset management

SPEAKER_04: is better now than it has been traditionally.

SPEAKER_04: It's been poor in the past.

SPEAKER_04: Also their UI, traditionally, again, it's been a bit.

SPEAKER_04: Since I've worked with them, traditionally, their UI wasn't as attractive and easy to

SPEAKER_04: use as other vendors that were in the market space.

SPEAKER_04: Again, my data is a few years old.

SPEAKER_04: Lastly, we may be in the same situation as before.

SPEAKER_04: This company is owned by one gentleman.

SPEAKER_04: He is the founder and CEO.

SPEAKER_04: Usually companies that are rising, it's been, I think last time I looked at them originally,

SPEAKER_04: they were started 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_04: It was like 2014 or so.

SPEAKER_04: Companies like this are prime to acquisition.

SPEAKER_04: I said it back then when I had this feeling about click, so I hope it's not the case this

SPEAKER_04: time around because we've picked, unless it's changed since Vikram has no longer CEO

SPEAKER_04: and founder, we may find herself in the same situation again.

SPEAKER_04: I hope that's not the case.

SPEAKER_04: I hope somebody like us might come up and decide once again to come up with a project.

SPEAKER_04: Good pricing, wish they had more seed.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, they were extremely competitively priced, which I'm concerned about because they are

SPEAKER_04: significantly lower than everybody else and that always worries me.

SPEAKER_04: Even someone is that much lower, but their technical score looks good.

SPEAKER_04: Hope it works out for us.

Unknown: Any other comments?

Unknown: Okay.

Unknown: Do you have any other cards for requests?

SPEAKER_04: I do not see any.

SPEAKER_04: There were some summary items.

SPEAKER_04: Did you want to bring those up?

SPEAKER_04: There were some things people wanted to ask about.

SPEAKER_04: Can we add a direction?

SPEAKER_06: Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: Just one minute, please.

SPEAKER_06: I have two things.

SPEAKER_06: Staff will provide an update on the status, the Twin Cities vehicle to grid pilot and

SPEAKER_06: staff will see if we can find information related to the number of residences that don't

SPEAKER_06: have access to off-street parking.

SPEAKER_06: I think we did have one public comment off the agenda.

SPEAKER_06: It was on the same sheet, I believe.

SPEAKER_06: Is it that same one?

Unknown: That's not the same.

SPEAKER_05: That is on the, I think it's the same sheet.

SPEAKER_06: I think it's the other two.

SPEAKER_03: No, did you have any remarks you were going to give?

SPEAKER_03: Did you have comments?

SPEAKER_03: Okay.

SPEAKER_06: Come on up.

Unknown: Yeah, David Wright speaking on my own.

SPEAKER_09: Although this is about Coyote Creek and 350 Sacramento is opposing that project as our

SPEAKER_09: coalition of other environmental groups and off-highway vehicle associations.

SPEAKER_09: I think you guys know a lot about it.

SPEAKER_09: Something I learned just recently is that not only are there thousands of trees going

SPEAKER_09: to be destroyed or would be destroyed, but many, many of those trees are very large trees.

SPEAKER_09: Some of them indeed ancient trees.

SPEAKER_09: There are on the order of 100 blue oaks that are a yard or more in diameter.

SPEAKER_09: So that's a really big blue oak.

SPEAKER_09: There's a blue oak in the neighborhood of Mariposa, California that has a diameter of

SPEAKER_09: 46.5 inches.

SPEAKER_09: That is considered the champion blue oak, not only in California but in the world because

SPEAKER_09: blue oaks are confined to California.

SPEAKER_09: In the Coyote Creek project area, there is a 67-inch blue oak.

SPEAKER_09: There are in the neighborhood of 20 to 30 blue oaks that are larger in diameter than

SPEAKER_09: that champion blue oak.

SPEAKER_09: We're talking an amazing thing out there.

SPEAKER_09: There's just no reason that it should be there.

SPEAKER_09: I think you guys know that.

SPEAKER_09: Again, the project developer is out of compliance with the contract.

SPEAKER_09: It's not within the timeframe that is stated.

SPEAKER_09: I'm going to ask you again to step away to repudiate that contract.

SPEAKER_09: By doing that, you will save the county a whole lot of heartache and money because if

SPEAKER_09: they approve that and these environmental organizations and WHOHV organizations sue

SPEAKER_09: them, everybody is going to spend a lot of money and time.

SPEAKER_09: And then what happens, if that suit fails and then the project comes back to SMUD, the

SPEAKER_09: developer cannot, they no longer can sell you the power at the price that they proposed.

SPEAKER_09: I've heard that it's just not going to be economical to them.

SPEAKER_09: So they'll come to you and you'll have another chance to say no, I guess.

SPEAKER_09: But at that point, all this time and money and effort will have been spent.

SPEAKER_09: It's just not a good look and it's not a good idea.

SPEAKER_09: I ask you again to repudiate that contract.

SPEAKER_09: Thank you.

Unknown: Thank you.

SPEAKER_04: And do we have anything else?