Unknown: you
SPEAKER_06: you want to give it five seconds
SPEAKER_06: five seconds
SPEAKER_00: and then we will call the
SPEAKER_06: meeting to be recorded.
SPEAKER_06: Good evening everyone and
SPEAKER_06: welcome to the strategic
SPEAKER_06: development committee and
SPEAKER_06: special board meeting of
SPEAKER_06: April 7, 2026. This room
SPEAKER_06: is equipped with a safety
SPEAKER_06: alarm if the alarm sounds
SPEAKER_06: please leave in an orderly
SPEAKER_06: manner via the exits to the
SPEAKER_06: lobby or behind the dais
SPEAKER_06: assembly in front of the
SPEAKER_06: building and wait to hear
Unknown: all clear announcement from
SPEAKER_06: security before reentering.
SPEAKER_06: This meeting is being
Unknown: recorded and can be accessed
SPEAKER_06: on SMUD's website. Please
SPEAKER_06: remember to unmute your
SPEAKER_06: microphone and turn off the
SPEAKER_06: lights so that our virtual
SPEAKER_06: attendees may hear. The
SPEAKER_06: microphone will display a
SPEAKER_06: green indicator light when
Unknown: the mic is on. For members
SPEAKER_06: of the public attending in
SPEAKER_06: person that wish to speak at
SPEAKER_06: this meeting, please fill out
SPEAKER_06: a speaker's request form
SPEAKER_06: located on the table outside
SPEAKER_06: the room and hand it to
SPEAKER_06: SMUD's security. Members of
SPEAKER_06: the public attending this
SPEAKER_06: meeting virtually that wish
Unknown: to provide verbal comments
SPEAKER_06: during the committee meeting
SPEAKER_06: may do so by using the
SPEAKER_06: raise hand feature in
SPEAKER_06: zoom or pressing star 9
SPEAKER_06: while dialed into the
SPEAKER_06: telephone toll-free number
SPEAKER_06: at the time the public
SPEAKER_06: comment is called. Technical
SPEAKER_06: supports act of the public
SPEAKER_06: call. The public will
SPEAKER_06: call the meeting to speak at
SPEAKER_06: the meeting. The public
SPEAKER_06: will call the meeting to
SPEAKER_06: speak at the meeting. The
SPEAKER_06: public will call the meeting
SPEAKER_06: to speak at the meeting.
SPEAKER_06: Technical support staff will
SPEAKER_06: enable the audio for you when
SPEAKER_06: your name is announced during
SPEAKER_06: the public comment period. You
SPEAKER_06: may also submit written
SPEAKER_06: comments by emailing them to
SPEAKER_06: public comment at SMUD.org.
SPEAKER_06: Written comments will not be
SPEAKER_06: read into the record but will
SPEAKER_06: be provided to the board
SPEAKER_06: electronically and placed into
SPEAKER_06: the record of the meeting if
SPEAKER_06: received within two hours
SPEAKER_06: after the meeting ends. Chief
SPEAKER_06: legal officer, please conduct
SPEAKER_06: the roll call.
SPEAKER_06: Director Fishman.
SPEAKER_05: Here.
Unknown: Director Herber.
SPEAKER_05: Here.
SPEAKER_05: Chair Samborn.
SPEAKER_05: Here.
SPEAKER_05: All committee members are
SPEAKER_05: present. Also present are
SPEAKER_05: directors Rose, Buick-Thompson,
SPEAKER_05: Kirth and present Tamaia.
SPEAKER_05: Fantastic. So we will move into
SPEAKER_06: item number one on our agenda,
SPEAKER_06: which is to provide the board
SPEAKER_06: with an internal and external
SPEAKER_06: presentation and discussion on
SPEAKER_06: the vehicle to grid
SPEAKER_06: technologies. I'm very excited
SPEAKER_06: about this presentation and I
SPEAKER_06: want to thank director Herber
SPEAKER_06: for doing the pre-brief. Our
SPEAKER_06: presenters are James Frazier,
SPEAKER_06: director of research and
SPEAKER_06: development grants and
SPEAKER_06: partnerships and Zach Wogan,
SPEAKER_06: executive director of the
SPEAKER_06: vehicle to grid integration
SPEAKER_06: council. Welcome.
Unknown: Excellent. Thank you for having
SPEAKER_00: me. My name is Zach Wogan. I'm
SPEAKER_00: the executive director of the
SPEAKER_00: vehicle grid integration
SPEAKER_00: council or VGIC. I'm going to
Unknown: share more about the state of
SPEAKER_00: bidirectional charging solutions
SPEAKER_00: or as it's often called vehicle
SPEAKER_00: to grid technologies or vehicle
SPEAKER_00: to everything technologies. I'm
Unknown: going to start with a statement
SPEAKER_00: that unifies our organization,
SPEAKER_00: which is that EVs represent
SPEAKER_00: untapped potential beyond
SPEAKER_00: mobility as distributed energy
SPEAKER_00: resources to support an
SPEAKER_00: affordable and reliable energy
SPEAKER_00: future. VGIC, as we call
SPEAKER_00: ourselves, is a national 501C6
SPEAKER_00: member-based trade association
SPEAKER_00: focused on unlocking the value
SPEAKER_00: of managed charging,
SPEAKER_00: bidirectional charging and DER
SPEAKER_00: paired charging, in other words
SPEAKER_00: solar back charging or battery
SPEAKER_00: buffered storage paired charging
SPEAKER_00: or generators, EV charging
SPEAKER_00: microgrids, all the fun stuff
SPEAKER_00: you could do with EVs and
SPEAKER_00: chargers beyond just getting
SPEAKER_00: them out there. We are supported
SPEAKER_00: by around 35 organizations,
SPEAKER_00: including many of the large
SPEAKER_00: automotive manufacturers across
SPEAKER_00: light, medium and heavy duty
SPEAKER_00: vehicles, folks that do
SPEAKER_00: manufacturing of EV charging
SPEAKER_00: stations, folks that deploy and
SPEAKER_00: install EV charging stations
SPEAKER_00: and sites that charge EVs,
SPEAKER_00: and other tier one suppliers
SPEAKER_00: of software and hardware,
SPEAKER_00: as well as aggregators that can
SPEAKER_00: tap into these vehicles and
SPEAKER_00: chargers and provide services
SPEAKER_00: to a utility or to the grid.
SPEAKER_00: Excuse some of the aesthetic
SPEAKER_00: wonkiness of the slides here.
SPEAKER_00: We're used to doing white
SPEAKER_00: background, but learned we
SPEAKER_00: can't do white background here.
Unknown: That's perfect timing on the
SPEAKER_00: aesthetic wonkiness.
SPEAKER_00: What is vehicle grid
SPEAKER_00: integration? This is sort of an
SPEAKER_00: alphabet soup space, so I've
SPEAKER_00: taken out a lot of the acronyms
SPEAKER_00: that are often viewed in this
SPEAKER_00: world and want to focus in on
SPEAKER_00: what the orange box is situated
SPEAKER_00: around grid isolated
SPEAKER_00: bidirectional charging and grid
SPEAKER_00: parallel bidirectional charging.
SPEAKER_00: Grid isolated can be islanded
SPEAKER_00: systems that provide backup
SPEAKER_00: power, for example, to a home
SPEAKER_00: or building, and grid parallel
SPEAKER_00: bidirectional charging systems
SPEAKER_00: are interconnected to the
SPEAKER_00: utility's grid and providing
SPEAKER_00: power to a home, business, or
SPEAKER_00: back to the grid, either to help
SPEAKER_00: manage a customer's bill or to
SPEAKER_00: participate in some sort of
SPEAKER_00: export program or rate.
Unknown: A bunch of other stuff on this
SPEAKER_00: slide that we're not here to
SPEAKER_00: talk about today, but happy to
SPEAKER_00: follow up if folks have
SPEAKER_00: questions.
Unknown: Why VGI now? Why do we focus on
SPEAKER_00: this at the organization? Why
SPEAKER_00: do I personally wake up and work
SPEAKER_00: on this every day? First and
SPEAKER_00: foremost, to accelerate
SPEAKER_00: transportation electrification.
Unknown: All those opportunities, those
SPEAKER_00: use cases I mentioned a moment
SPEAKER_00: ago, can help to reduce the
SPEAKER_00: total cost of ownership of
SPEAKER_00: electric vehicles, and this is
SPEAKER_00: particularly important for
SPEAKER_00: fleets that use that total cost
SPEAKER_00: of ownership calculator to make
SPEAKER_00: their decisions on when to
SPEAKER_00: electrify.
SPEAKER_00: The second reason is to support
SPEAKER_00: the evolving power sector,
SPEAKER_00: helping to manage the build out
SPEAKER_00: of the grid by using load
SPEAKER_00: flexibility solutions and
SPEAKER_00: exporting solutions and battery
SPEAKER_00: storage can reduce costs and
SPEAKER_00: bolster the reliability of the
SPEAKER_00: grid.
SPEAKER_00: A third item I referenced just a
SPEAKER_00: moment ago, reducing cost,
SPEAKER_00: ensuring we could accelerate
SPEAKER_00: transportation electrification
SPEAKER_00: and in doing so, expand the
SPEAKER_00: consumption of electricity while
SPEAKER_00: also making better use and
SPEAKER_00: utilization of the grid we
SPEAKER_00: already have can help to place
SPEAKER_00: downward pressure on those
SPEAKER_00: average rates.
SPEAKER_00: So lower numerator, larger
SPEAKER_00: denominator, lower average rates,
SPEAKER_00: a lot of that's achieved through
SPEAKER_00: aligning EV load consumption and
SPEAKER_00: exports with when it's most
SPEAKER_00: useful for the grid.
SPEAKER_00: Fourth, perhaps most intuitive
SPEAKER_00: for a lot of folks, community
SPEAKER_00: resilience, large batteries in
SPEAKER_00: your driveway, in your garage,
SPEAKER_00: there's an opportunity to tap
SPEAKER_00: into that when the power goes
SPEAKER_00: out, when there's a storm, when
SPEAKER_00: there's a planned or unplanned
SPEAKER_00: outage and using that to back up
SPEAKER_00: your home or business or maybe an
SPEAKER_00: islanded section of the grid in
SPEAKER_00: a microgrid configuration.
SPEAKER_00: And lastly, fostering economic
SPEAKER_00: activity, those 30 or 40
SPEAKER_00: companies I had on our sort of
SPEAKER_00: NASCAR logo soup slide earlier
SPEAKER_00: all have electricians and
SPEAKER_00: installers and training
SPEAKER_00: facilities, manufacturing,
SPEAKER_00: headquarters and other employment
SPEAKER_00: in California.
SPEAKER_00: Some of those may also be here
SPEAKER_00: in Sacramento.
Unknown: I was going to say, too, one of
SPEAKER_06: the benefits is that I didn't
SPEAKER_06: see on there was reusing more
Unknown: efficient use of the critical
SPEAKER_06: minerals that we have available
SPEAKER_06: to us.
SPEAKER_06: If everybody has this giant
SPEAKER_06: battery sitting in their garage,
SPEAKER_06: in their car, that we cannot
SPEAKER_06: access when we need it, I mean,
Unknown: that means there has to be more
SPEAKER_06: batteries elsewhere.
SPEAKER_06: And so we only have so many of
SPEAKER_06: these minerals to go around,
SPEAKER_06: which is why I've been really
SPEAKER_06: supportive of this.
SPEAKER_06: You know, obviously there's many
SPEAKER_06: reasons.
SPEAKER_06: But also we need to recycle more
SPEAKER_06: of these as well because we've
SPEAKER_06: got to find a way to keep these
SPEAKER_06: minerals in the U.S. because we
SPEAKER_06: don't have them all.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And one statistic that I think
SPEAKER_00: that is relevant in that regard
SPEAKER_00: of you mentioned how many folks
SPEAKER_00: have their vehicles sitting
SPEAKER_00: there.
SPEAKER_00: I think the U.S. Department of
SPEAKER_00: Transportation says 95% of the
SPEAKER_00: time on average vehicles are
SPEAKER_00: sitting idle.
SPEAKER_00: So there is tremendous
SPEAKER_00: opportunity to tap into that and
SPEAKER_00: offset some of the deployment of
SPEAKER_00: other energy storage solutions.
SPEAKER_00: I did want to note this is often
SPEAKER_00: the first question we get in our
SPEAKER_00: frequently asked questions is
SPEAKER_00: what vehicles can do this, what
SPEAKER_00: chargers can do this?
SPEAKER_00: Presently, there's a list right
SPEAKER_00: here of offerings, sort of
SPEAKER_00: solutions that are marketed
SPEAKER_00: actively to customers for home
SPEAKER_00: backup power.
SPEAKER_00: So Nissan Volvo, Polestar Ford,
SPEAKER_00: General Motors, Kia, Tesla all
SPEAKER_00: currently offer these models of
SPEAKER_00: vehicle and advertise that that
SPEAKER_00: bidirectional charging capability
SPEAKER_00: is available.
SPEAKER_00: Not for all model years.
SPEAKER_00: For example, that Chevy Bolt is
Unknown: the new Chevy Bolt that just came
SPEAKER_00: out.
SPEAKER_00: And on the compatible charger
SPEAKER_00: side, you'll note that there's a
SPEAKER_00: little bit of matching happening
SPEAKER_00: here.
SPEAKER_00: Not every vehicle works with
SPEAKER_00: every charger.
SPEAKER_00: But there is certainly a few
SPEAKER_00: interesting developments that have
SPEAKER_00: happened.
SPEAKER_00: One is that this slide was much,
SPEAKER_00: much smaller a year ago.
SPEAKER_00: A lot of this is very new, which
SPEAKER_00: is very exciting from our point
SPEAKER_00: of view.
SPEAKER_00: The second is that some of these
SPEAKER_00: vehicles, especially the more
SPEAKER_00: recent ones that have been added
SPEAKER_00: to this list are lower cost
SPEAKER_00: vehicles.
SPEAKER_00: The Bolt, the Equinox, even the
SPEAKER_00: Kia EV9 and of course the Nissan
SPEAKER_00: Leaf all relatively low cost
SPEAKER_00: compared to some of the ones that
SPEAKER_00: used to just be on this list
SPEAKER_00: alone.
SPEAKER_00: On the charging equipment as well,
SPEAKER_00: the costs are starting to come
SPEAKER_00: down, but they still can be quite
SPEAKER_00: high.
SPEAKER_00: We're seeing by and large the
SPEAKER_00: first generation of the charging
SPEAKER_00: equipment and the related
SPEAKER_00: hardware that's needed to enable
SPEAKER_00: this in the home.
SPEAKER_00: And with that, there's higher
SPEAKER_00: costs than we expect there to be
SPEAKER_00: over time.
SPEAKER_00: And so some of the more recent
SPEAKER_00: equipment has pretty dramatically
SPEAKER_00: reduced costs, but we're still
SPEAKER_00: getting there across this whole
SPEAKER_00: slide, this whole chart.
SPEAKER_00: And we're expecting it to grow
SPEAKER_00: quite a bit.
SPEAKER_00: On the bottom there you'll see
SPEAKER_00: Toyota, Hyundai, Rivian,
SPEAKER_00: Volkswagen.
SPEAKER_00: Last week I was at the New York
SPEAKER_00: Auto Show and Kia announced their
SPEAKER_00: new EV3, very low cost vehicle
SPEAKER_00: that will also be launching with
SPEAKER_00: this home backup power
SPEAKER_00: capability.
SPEAKER_00: So we're seeing it accelerate,
Unknown: mature pretty rapidly.
SPEAKER_00: So this has all happened
SPEAKER_00: relatively quick.
Unknown: On the electric school bus side
SPEAKER_00: of things, it's a bit more of a
SPEAKER_00: beachhead.
SPEAKER_00: My text in carry here, sorry,
SPEAKER_00: there's text.
SPEAKER_00: If you could see the blue on
SPEAKER_00: blue, which you can't.
SPEAKER_00: And in small text, I apologize.
SPEAKER_00: But the key takeaway here is
SPEAKER_00: that electric school buses
SPEAKER_00: generally have a duty cycle
SPEAKER_00: that aligns with the needs of
SPEAKER_00: the grid, meaning they're often
SPEAKER_00: sitting idle in particular during
SPEAKER_00: that summer evening peak period
SPEAKER_00: when we can use spare capacity.
SPEAKER_00: And there's a tremendous
SPEAKER_00: opportunity with 400,000 electric
SPEAKER_00: school buses around the country,
SPEAKER_00: you know, some of those, of
Unknown: course, here in California.
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, 400,000 school buses
SPEAKER_00: across the country.
SPEAKER_00: Many of those transitioning to
SPEAKER_00: electric, many of those here in
SPEAKER_00: California and Sacramento.
SPEAKER_00: There's a great chance to tap
SPEAKER_00: into those and support the grid
SPEAKER_00: and so it's been this beachhead
SPEAKER_00: for a while now in California
SPEAKER_00: with sites being developed, a
SPEAKER_00: lot of them supported by funding
SPEAKER_00: from the California energy
SPEAKER_00: commission and some of the
SPEAKER_00: smaller investor-owned utility
SPEAKER_00: funded pilots as well.
SPEAKER_00: But I do want to note that you'll
SPEAKER_00: notice there's less one-to-one
SPEAKER_00: matching here.
SPEAKER_00: In fact, there's no one-to-one
SPEAKER_00: matching.
SPEAKER_00: Generally speaking, these
SPEAKER_00: vehicles and chargers are a
SPEAKER_00: little bit different.
SPEAKER_00: They're a little bit more plug
SPEAKER_00: and play or interoperable, to
SPEAKER_00: use the technical term, than on
SPEAKER_00: the light duty side.
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean we're 100%
SPEAKER_00: there yet on the medium and
SPEAKER_00: heavy duty side either.
SPEAKER_00: We're just a little further
SPEAKER_00: along.
SPEAKER_00: So there's still some
SPEAKER_00: customization that needs to
SPEAKER_00: happen oftentimes in the field
SPEAKER_00: when you deploy these sites to
SPEAKER_00: get chargers and vehicles to
SPEAKER_00: talk to one another, have that
SPEAKER_00: handshake be successful every
SPEAKER_00: time.
SPEAKER_00: And so we're still in that
SPEAKER_00: first generation.
SPEAKER_00: We're still getting products to
SPEAKER_00: work in the field every time.
SPEAKER_00: And part of that is also
SPEAKER_00: maturing the ecosystem so you
SPEAKER_00: don't need that one-to-one
SPEAKER_00: matching.
SPEAKER_00: But you can truly have that
SPEAKER_00: plug and play and with it comes
SPEAKER_00: not just lowered risk of
SPEAKER_00: stranded assets, as companies
SPEAKER_00: may go out of business, but
SPEAKER_00: also more customer choice or in
SPEAKER_00: this case choice for fleets.
SPEAKER_00: But the costs are still high on
SPEAKER_00: this side as well.
SPEAKER_00: And we are expecting them to
SPEAKER_00: come down further as we reach
SPEAKER_00: more scale and more of these
SPEAKER_00: sites are deployed.
SPEAKER_00: I want to note that in addition
SPEAKER_00: to electric school buses, we're
SPEAKER_00: starting to hear about some more
SPEAKER_00: sites and more use cases that
SPEAKER_00: might be interesting.
SPEAKER_00: Next steps, refuse trucks,
SPEAKER_00: street sweepers, other sort of
SPEAKER_00: specialty use, very highly
SPEAKER_00: predictable duty cycle that may
SPEAKER_00: line up well having the dwell
SPEAKER_00: time during that evening peak.
Unknown: So the very exciting topic we
SPEAKER_00: get...
SPEAKER_00: My day job is with Sacramento
SPEAKER_04: Regional Transit and I'm
SPEAKER_04: assuming transit buses are not
SPEAKER_04: typically included in this
SPEAKER_04: because they're busy most of the
SPEAKER_04: time.
Unknown: Generally speaking, yes.
SPEAKER_04: Are they even manufacturing
SPEAKER_04: electric transit buses with
SPEAKER_04: vehicle to grid capability or is
SPEAKER_04: it just they're just not doing
SPEAKER_04: it?
SPEAKER_04: It's a good question.
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
SPEAKER_00: It might be worth asking where
SPEAKER_00: your procurement is.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, thank you.
SPEAKER_00: But one thing that we've
SPEAKER_00: learned in California, there was
SPEAKER_00: a joint agency working group back
SPEAKER_00: in 2019.
SPEAKER_00: We were part of California
SPEAKER_00: Energy Commission, the
SPEAKER_00: utilities commission, CAISO,
SPEAKER_00: about 100 different participants
SPEAKER_00: representing a whole swath of
SPEAKER_00: stakeholders.
SPEAKER_00: We mapped out 2500 use cases
SPEAKER_00: for VGI, right?
SPEAKER_00: All the ways customers will
SPEAKER_00: interact with their vehicles and
SPEAKER_00: their vehicles can interact with
SPEAKER_00: the grid.
SPEAKER_00: And what we found is that that's
Unknown: a great academic effort, but boy
SPEAKER_00: is it take a lot of time and
SPEAKER_00: you're not sure where you get at
SPEAKER_00: the end.
SPEAKER_00: What is maybe a potential
SPEAKER_00: opportunity is to move toward
SPEAKER_00: rates or programs or pathways
SPEAKER_00: that are more agnostic toward
SPEAKER_00: use case and see sort of who
SPEAKER_00: gravitates toward them because
SPEAKER_00: the way people interact with
SPEAKER_00: their vehicles and the way
SPEAKER_00: they're interact with the grid
SPEAKER_00: with their vehicles can vary
SPEAKER_00: tremendously.
SPEAKER_00: So I hesitate to say that, you
SPEAKER_00: know, one use case is
SPEAKER_00: particularly great or not great
SPEAKER_00: with the exception of school
SPEAKER_00: buses, which again have been the
SPEAKER_00: beachhead for the past several
SPEAKER_00: years.
Unknown: And, okay, I'm sorry to make
SPEAKER_04: this all about me, but I also
SPEAKER_04: drive a Hyundai Nexo.
SPEAKER_04: Are there any fuel cell electric
SPEAKER_04: vehicles that are doing vehicle
SPEAKER_04: to grid?
SPEAKER_04: Not that I'm aware of, but fuel
SPEAKER_00: cell electric vehicles do use the
SPEAKER_00: hydrogen to power a small
SPEAKER_00: battery.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: So perhaps there is an
SPEAKER_00: opportunity there if the
SPEAKER_00: products start to move in that
SPEAKER_00: direction.
Unknown: Okay.
Unknown: All right.
Unknown: This is the exciting topic that
SPEAKER_00: we get asked about a lot.
SPEAKER_00: Home backup power, it's neat.
SPEAKER_00: Electric school buses, also
SPEAKER_00: neat, but there's this tremendous
SPEAKER_00: opportunity in light duty
SPEAKER_00: passenger EVs, of which we have
SPEAKER_00: I believe 2 million in California,
SPEAKER_00: over 2 million.
SPEAKER_00: So from 2008 to 2023, I'll call
SPEAKER_00: this sort of the testing and
SPEAKER_00: demo phase.
SPEAKER_00: In fact, that picture on the
SPEAKER_00: left is University of Delaware
SPEAKER_00: where vehicle to grid was
SPEAKER_00: arguably invented.
SPEAKER_00: And in 2024, we just now saw our
SPEAKER_00: first real customer deployments
SPEAKER_00: of grid parallel bidirectional
SPEAKER_00: charging.
SPEAKER_00: In other words, not just for
SPEAKER_00: home backup power, but for use
SPEAKER_00: cases that can sort of more on a
SPEAKER_00: daily basis provide power to a
SPEAKER_00: home, manage a bill, or export to
SPEAKER_00: the grid.
SPEAKER_00: In 2025, we saw those first
SPEAKER_00: exporting customers.
SPEAKER_00: Three in Maryland, and we saw
SPEAKER_00: Ford announced they've been doing
SPEAKER_00: some testing in Vermont and
SPEAKER_00: Michigan.
SPEAKER_00: PG&E, Massachusetts, and the
SPEAKER_00: California energy commission have
SPEAKER_00: all launched, and Connecticut as
SPEAKER_00: well, sorry I left them off this
SPEAKER_00: slide, all launched these
SPEAKER_00: what I will call deployment
SPEAKER_00: pilots, moving from the
SPEAKER_00: demonstration of does this work
SPEAKER_00: in the field with real customers
SPEAKER_00: to what happens when we launch
SPEAKER_00: 100 or 1,000 of these things.
SPEAKER_00: How do we stress test our
SPEAKER_00: systems, do our interconnection
SPEAKER_00: rules work, do our compensation
SPEAKER_00: mechanisms work, what does it
SPEAKER_00: mean for your rooftop solar
SPEAKER_00: system to add one of these.
SPEAKER_00: So there's a great deal of
SPEAKER_00: learning that comes when you move
SPEAKER_00: from that one off demo to what if
SPEAKER_00: we do 100 of these, 1,000 of
SPEAKER_00: these.
SPEAKER_00: But again, I want to highlight,
SPEAKER_00: this is all happening really
SPEAKER_00: fast.
SPEAKER_00: In fact, almost all of those
SPEAKER_00: 2025 announcements were in like
SPEAKER_00: November and December.
SPEAKER_00: So we're just now at the front
SPEAKER_00: end of this, and on the right
SPEAKER_00: hand side you'll see Tesla just
SPEAKER_00: launched in Texas and have said
SPEAKER_00: they're coming to California next
SPEAKER_00: with the three large investment
SPEAKER_00: utilities to participate in their
SPEAKER_00: emergency load reduction program.
SPEAKER_00: We've got some other stuff
SPEAKER_00: happening now in Washington.
SPEAKER_00: PG&E is very quickly went from
Unknown: 2 to 30 customers in their
SPEAKER_00: bidirectional charging pilot.
SPEAKER_00: So it's exciting, it's
SPEAKER_00: accelerating, but again, these
SPEAKER_00: are kind of one-to-one matching
SPEAKER_00: of vehicles and chargers, and we
SPEAKER_00: still have a lot to learn as we
SPEAKER_00: deploy at a larger and larger
SPEAKER_00: scale.
SPEAKER_00: So the million, billion, or
SPEAKER_00: trillion dollar question, right,
SPEAKER_00: what's it worth?
SPEAKER_00: The technical potential is
SPEAKER_00: immense.
SPEAKER_00: So the California Energy
SPEAKER_00: Commission has published
SPEAKER_00: analysis.
SPEAKER_00: They conducted with the national
SPEAKER_00: lab of the Rockies, formerly
SPEAKER_00: NREL, showing that today we
Unknown: have 18 and a half gigawatts of
SPEAKER_00: energy storage capacity in our
SPEAKER_00: electric vehicles in California.
SPEAKER_00: That exceeds all of our
SPEAKER_00: stationary energy storage in the
SPEAKER_00: state combined.
SPEAKER_00: So it's an immense technical
SPEAKER_00: potential.
SPEAKER_00: What we don't know, however, is
SPEAKER_00: how many folks are going to
SPEAKER_00: install the relevant equipment
SPEAKER_00: and how many folks are going to
SPEAKER_00: be plugged in at the right time
SPEAKER_00: with the right state of charge
SPEAKER_00: with the preference and behavior
SPEAKER_00: that matches the needs of the
SPEAKER_00: grid.
SPEAKER_00: That is the X factor.
SPEAKER_00: That is the big unknown here.
SPEAKER_00: Again, the deployment pilots
SPEAKER_00: scaling from one to 10 to 20 to
SPEAKER_00: 100 to 1,000 customers will start
SPEAKER_00: to reveal some of this.
SPEAKER_00: So we're still learning.
SPEAKER_00: We're tuning in very closely as
SPEAKER_00: the trade group to see how these
SPEAKER_00: pan out, and it will help to
SPEAKER_00: evaluate that behavior.
Unknown: Yes.
Unknown: I just had a quick question.
Unknown: You know, all these pilots that
SPEAKER_08: everybody is doing, is there a
SPEAKER_08: general amount of money that this
SPEAKER_08: costs, you know, me as a resident
SPEAKER_08: who owns the electric vehicle?
Unknown: That's a great question.
SPEAKER_00: We've seen for these pilots very
SPEAKER_00: heavily subsidized equipment.
SPEAKER_00: So in Massachusetts, the Clean
SPEAKER_00: Energy Center there, which is
SPEAKER_00: their sustainability economic
SPEAKER_00: development quasi-public agency,
SPEAKER_00: they've provided $6 million to
SPEAKER_00: fully subsidized chargers for
SPEAKER_00: nonresidential and school bus
SPEAKER_00: sites.
SPEAKER_00: So they're saying we've got, we'll
SPEAKER_00: pick up the full tab, not just the
SPEAKER_00: equipment but the installation
SPEAKER_00: costs.
SPEAKER_00: The California energy commission,
SPEAKER_00: depending on the recipient of the
SPEAKER_00: grant and sort of how it flows
SPEAKER_00: through on the residential side,
SPEAKER_00: you can get like $10,000 or more
SPEAKER_00: dollars to help offset those
SPEAKER_00: costs.
SPEAKER_00: So heavily subsidized in those
SPEAKER_00: pilots right now.
SPEAKER_00: So I can get, let's say, $10,000
SPEAKER_08: is that going to cover it all?
SPEAKER_08: Or is it $20,000 and I'm getting
SPEAKER_08: 10?
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, so the, of that chart I
Unknown: showed earlier, some of those
SPEAKER_00: systems cost $10,000 MSRP, then
SPEAKER_00: you also have the installation.
SPEAKER_00: Some of them are much lower, but
SPEAKER_00: not eligible then for those
SPEAKER_00: larger rebates.
SPEAKER_00: So some of the newer systems are
SPEAKER_00: lower now, like $1,500 to $2,500,
SPEAKER_00: which is almost achieving that
SPEAKER_00: parity.
SPEAKER_00: With a unidirectional charging
SPEAKER_00: system.
SPEAKER_00: So we're getting lower on costs
SPEAKER_00: from the product side and those
SPEAKER_00: rebates are helping to fill in
SPEAKER_00: the gap for now as well, just so
SPEAKER_00: we can learn from those pilots.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
Unknown: So again, the X factor is what
Unknown: will the participation rates
SPEAKER_00: look like.
SPEAKER_00: I know it's very small text, but
SPEAKER_00: I'm really meant to just provide
SPEAKER_00: this as an overview that you can
SPEAKER_00: make assumptions and try to come
SPEAKER_00: up with, okay, what if enrollment
SPEAKER_00: looks like, what it looks like
SPEAKER_00: for smart thermostats, right?
SPEAKER_00: This isn't a very inconvenient
SPEAKER_00: thing.
SPEAKER_00: Yes, there's upfront costs and
SPEAKER_00: decisions to be made, but it's
SPEAKER_00: largely behind the scenes.
SPEAKER_00: Your vehicle sits there for 10
SPEAKER_00: hours.
SPEAKER_00: You only need two hours of
SPEAKER_00: charge.
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of wiggle room
SPEAKER_00: there to play with the customer
SPEAKER_00: experience and not bother them.
SPEAKER_00: And so there's an argument to be
SPEAKER_00: made.
SPEAKER_00: Maybe the smart thermostat
SPEAKER_00: enrollment is kind of the floor
SPEAKER_00: for what the uptake or enrollment
SPEAKER_00: might look like.
SPEAKER_00: Maybe not.
SPEAKER_00: So there's a whole list of
SPEAKER_00: studies here.
SPEAKER_00: These are California specific.
SPEAKER_00: We've also got stuff from MIT and
SPEAKER_00: in New York and other markets.
SPEAKER_00: This is a mix of national lab,
SPEAKER_00: E3, Brattle, Stanford, Berkeley,
SPEAKER_00: environmental groups, even PG&E
SPEAKER_00: themselves in one case.
SPEAKER_00: The general theme is that, again,
SPEAKER_00: there's a lot of potential.
SPEAKER_00: It varies depending on where you
SPEAKER_00: are, but through those pilots
SPEAKER_00: we'll learn more and pin down
SPEAKER_00: what that sort of real capacity
SPEAKER_00: value is, right?
SPEAKER_00: What is it worth?
SPEAKER_00: How reliable is it to show up
SPEAKER_00: when dispatched?
SPEAKER_00: So how do we scale?
SPEAKER_00: We break our work down into four
SPEAKER_00: policy work streams,
SPEAKER_00: enterization interconnection,
SPEAKER_00: which answers the question,
SPEAKER_00: can I connect to the grid?
SPEAKER_00: Compensation, which answers the
SPEAKER_00: question, what will I save or
SPEAKER_00: earn?
SPEAKER_00: Upfront cost, which answers the
SPEAKER_00: question, will I have some help
SPEAKER_00: to pay for the system?
SPEAKER_00: And then technical standards,
SPEAKER_00: which is will it all fit
SPEAKER_00: together or do I need to buy a
SPEAKER_00: specific type of system?
Unknown: Just some case studies real
SPEAKER_00: quick.
SPEAKER_00: Some areas are clarifying that
SPEAKER_00: these systems do in fact fit
SPEAKER_00: within existing interconnection
SPEAKER_00: rules for energy storage systems,
SPEAKER_00: so not needing to reinvent the
SPEAKER_00: wheel, but just providing those
SPEAKER_00: clarifications or minor
SPEAKER_00: enhancements, and we're seeing
Unknown: more in new states.
SPEAKER_00: Connecticut should be on this
SPEAKER_00: list as well.
SPEAKER_00: On the compensation side, oh,
SPEAKER_00: these colors got really weird.
SPEAKER_00: On the compensation side, there's
SPEAKER_00: also a wide range of opportunities
SPEAKER_00: and how they're run and how
SPEAKER_00: they're expressed, but I think
SPEAKER_00: a lot of it is falling into
SPEAKER_00: these emerging technology
SPEAKER_00: agnostic virtual power plant or
SPEAKER_00: demand response programs where it
SPEAKER_00: provides you a capacity payment.
SPEAKER_00: It varies tremendously based on
SPEAKER_00: where you are, but it provides
SPEAKER_00: that certainty that customers
SPEAKER_00: need to adopt the equipment,
SPEAKER_00: having that payment framed in
SPEAKER_00: terms of capacity.
SPEAKER_00: Upfront cost support, I've
SPEAKER_00: referenced earlier some existing
SPEAKER_00: and pending rebates in some
SPEAKER_00: cases.
SPEAKER_00: The CEC one in the bottom there
SPEAKER_00: is actually up to $13,800, so
SPEAKER_00: quite a bit, but smaller
SPEAKER_00: chargers in some or smaller
SPEAKER_00: dollars per charger in some
SPEAKER_00: cases.
SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of content.
SPEAKER_00: I just want folks to take this
SPEAKER_00: as like a take home if they want
SPEAKER_00: to check it out, and there are
SPEAKER_00: just several examples where this
SPEAKER_00: progress is happening.
SPEAKER_00: So I think I'm a little over my
SPEAKER_00: allotted time.
SPEAKER_00: Just want to mention we do have
SPEAKER_00: some best practices items online,
SPEAKER_00: some deliverables that folks can
SPEAKER_00: check out as well.
SPEAKER_00: I'm also available.
SPEAKER_00: There's my e-mail for folks who
SPEAKER_00: want to reach out and follow up,
SPEAKER_00: but I believe now happy to take
SPEAKER_00: some questions and then hear from
SPEAKER_00: S&M as well.
Unknown: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: Can you go back a couple of
SPEAKER_06: slides?
SPEAKER_06: You had showed some data about
SPEAKER_06: who's doing all the different
SPEAKER_06: pilots and the unique concern
SPEAKER_06: scientists, I think, there.
Unknown: So California, in California,
SPEAKER_06: managed charging can save $4.2
SPEAKER_06: billion in system costs by 2045,
SPEAKER_06: and bidirectional charging
SPEAKER_06: capability can unlock an
SPEAKER_06: additional $3.5 billion at a
Unknown: modest 12.5% participation rate.
Unknown: That sounds absolutely stunning
SPEAKER_06: to me in the era of
SPEAKER_06: affordability and people having
SPEAKER_06: a hard time paying for anything.
SPEAKER_06: I just wanted to point that out
SPEAKER_06: because that to me is just, it's
SPEAKER_06: kind of buried in there, but
SPEAKER_06: it's very powerful data.
SPEAKER_06: I'm assuming you think it's
Unknown: accurate.
SPEAKER_06: I can't attest to the accuracy
SPEAKER_00: of any of these.
SPEAKER_00: I've never done my own modeling.
SPEAKER_00: I can certainly catalog them and
SPEAKER_00: list them here for folks if they
SPEAKER_00: want to Google that title and
SPEAKER_00: check them out for themselves.
Unknown: For people like me, I have solar
SPEAKER_06: in my house and I have an
SPEAKER_06: electric car.
Unknown: It doesn't make sense to me if
SPEAKER_06: I have a battery, a very
SPEAKER_06: expensive battery in my car, that
SPEAKER_06: I would then pay another, even
SPEAKER_06: with amazing smud rebates, which
SPEAKER_06: we have.
SPEAKER_06: It doesn't make sense to me to
SPEAKER_06: have to buy a battery wall when
SPEAKER_06: the battery is sitting right
SPEAKER_06: there in the car.
Unknown: And it's mobile.
SPEAKER_06: You can move it to where you
SPEAKER_06: need it, which is good and bad.
SPEAKER_06: I know it cuts both ways.
SPEAKER_06: But I just wanted to point that
SPEAKER_06: out because I find that very
SPEAKER_06: important.
SPEAKER_06: Anybody else want to have a
SPEAKER_06: question?
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
Unknown: If you have an existing EV, if
SPEAKER_04: you have an existing EV, is the
SPEAKER_04: choke point then just the
SPEAKER_04: charging infrastructure that you
SPEAKER_04: have at your house, will existing
SPEAKER_04: EVs, maybe from this year or from
SPEAKER_04: five years ago, will they do this
Unknown: without adverse impacts on the
SPEAKER_04: battery or the car, the software,
SPEAKER_04: all of that?
Unknown: Is it some will, some won't?
Unknown: Yes, some will, some won't.
SPEAKER_00: It's not universal.
SPEAKER_00: That, you know, I simplified this
SPEAKER_00: slide a little, but for the Nissan
SPEAKER_00: Leaf, for example, it's not every
SPEAKER_00: model year, right?
SPEAKER_00: It is several going back several
SPEAKER_00: years, but it's not every Nissan
SPEAKER_00: Leaf.
SPEAKER_00: So there's some limitations.
SPEAKER_00: And you did ask about impacts on,
SPEAKER_00: I believe, warranty or battery.
SPEAKER_00: I did want to mention that because
SPEAKER_00: that's a commonly asked question.
SPEAKER_00: We see that being handled in
SPEAKER_00: several different ways.
SPEAKER_00: But generally speaking, it's our
SPEAKER_00: understanding that automakers are
SPEAKER_00: very interested in doing this.
SPEAKER_00: And they're just approaching it
SPEAKER_00: and collecting data, doing these
SPEAKER_00: limited deployments to understand
SPEAKER_00: the impacts on the battery.
SPEAKER_00: We've seen some examples already,
SPEAKER_00: Volvo and Polestar, when they
SPEAKER_00: launched just a couple months ago,
SPEAKER_00: they said you get 4,000 kilowatt
SPEAKER_00: hours a year on a rolling 365 day
SPEAKER_00: basis, you get 4,000 kilowatt
SPEAKER_00: hours to use for this
SPEAKER_00: bidirectional charging stuff.
SPEAKER_00: And that's covered.
SPEAKER_00: If you go over that, it's not
SPEAKER_00: covered.
SPEAKER_00: So there are different approaches
SPEAKER_00: that can be used.
SPEAKER_00: There's also an approach being
SPEAKER_00: considered at the United Nations
SPEAKER_00: global technical regulation level,
SPEAKER_00: or GTR, that's called the virtual
SPEAKER_00: mile standard, which says let's
SPEAKER_00: measure miles not just for
SPEAKER_00: traction or for mobility, but also
SPEAKER_00: for these other purposes, like
SPEAKER_00: bidirectional charging.
SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's what our measurement
SPEAKER_00: should be, our standard should be.
Unknown: So do any of the studies, or is
SPEAKER_03: there some other source of
SPEAKER_03: information that you're aware of
SPEAKER_03: that considers the conflict
SPEAKER_03: between using your house as a
SPEAKER_03: using your car as backup and the
SPEAKER_03: need to actually use your car as
SPEAKER_03: a car, is that reflected in here
SPEAKER_03: in these estimates of additional
SPEAKER_03: capacity?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so some of these studies
SPEAKER_00: do take assumptions about when
SPEAKER_00: customers might need their
SPEAKER_00: vehicle and what their sort of
SPEAKER_00: data charge would be.
SPEAKER_00: Others take real data.
SPEAKER_00: So, for example, the Stanford
SPEAKER_00: study, you know, they actually
SPEAKER_00: took real world data from an
SPEAKER_00: automaker, even actually pre-COVID
SPEAKER_00: because they wanted to better
SPEAKER_00: understand maybe what that would
SPEAKER_00: look like.
SPEAKER_00: The analysis was just done, but
SPEAKER_00: the data is pre-COVID.
SPEAKER_00: So it is real world.
SPEAKER_00: In addition to mobility, what
Unknown: sort of wiggle room do we have to
SPEAKER_00: play with with these extra
SPEAKER_00: kilowatt hours?
SPEAKER_00: So it is in that case taken into
SPEAKER_00: account.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
SPEAKER_02: Any other questions?
Unknown: Okay.
Unknown: I think we'll go on to James.
Unknown: Thank you so much.
Unknown: Thank you very much.
Unknown: Thanks.
Unknown: I also want to say thank you for
SPEAKER_01: that presentation, and now I want
SPEAKER_01: to do a little bit of work to kind
SPEAKER_01: of map that large kind of what
SPEAKER_01: the nation is doing and what this
SPEAKER_01: larger conversation looks like
SPEAKER_01: down to what this picture looks
SPEAKER_01: like for Sacramento and our
SPEAKER_01: community and our customers and
SPEAKER_01: the things that we're doing to
SPEAKER_01: help bring this opportunity
SPEAKER_01: forward.
SPEAKER_01: I also want to start with a chart
SPEAKER_01: that just highlights the number
SPEAKER_01: of vehicles that are engaging in
SPEAKER_01: this vehicle-to-grid charging and
SPEAKER_01: interaction conversation.
SPEAKER_01: When we see a chart like this, if
SPEAKER_01: we go back five years, this was
SPEAKER_01: just a chart about the type of
SPEAKER_01: auto manufacturers that were
SPEAKER_01: thinking about building electric
SPEAKER_01: vehicles.
SPEAKER_01: It was do we add a new model to
SPEAKER_01: our line?
SPEAKER_01: Do we expand what we're doing?
SPEAKER_01: In just a really short period of
SPEAKER_01: time, really in the last couple of
SPEAKER_01: years, the conversation has rapidly
SPEAKER_01: transitioned to not just we're
SPEAKER_01: building electric vehicles, but
SPEAKER_01: we're leaning into these advanced
SPEAKER_01: features.
SPEAKER_01: We're leaning into things that
SPEAKER_01: create stackable value for
SPEAKER_01: customers and EV drivers.
SPEAKER_01: It's a really exciting message that
SPEAKER_01: we're seeing from the automotive
SPEAKER_01: OEM industry around their
SPEAKER_01: willingness and excitement to lean
SPEAKER_01: into this type of technology.
Unknown: It makes the potential that we're
SPEAKER_01: talking about for this market and
SPEAKER_01: for this grid value really
SPEAKER_01: tangible.
SPEAKER_01: When we look at what the electric
SPEAKER_01: vehicle adoption looks like in
SPEAKER_01: Sacramento, last year in 2025, we
SPEAKER_01: added 12,000 new electric vehicles
SPEAKER_01: to the region.
SPEAKER_01: That's an 18% increase from the
SPEAKER_01: number of vehicles that we had in
SPEAKER_01: 2024.
SPEAKER_01: It brings our total of electric
SPEAKER_01: vehicles over 76,000 electric
SPEAKER_01: vehicles now.
SPEAKER_01: That's 76,000.
SPEAKER_01: That's 6% of the total population.
SPEAKER_01: There's still a massive amount of
SPEAKER_01: transportation electrification to
SPEAKER_01: go.
SPEAKER_01: As we see these OEMs adding this
SPEAKER_01: vehicle to grid capability, that's
SPEAKER_01: really seeding the market.
SPEAKER_01: When you're buying an electric
SPEAKER_01: vehicle today, when you're buying
SPEAKER_01: one next year, when you're ready to
SPEAKER_01: replace your vehicle, there's a
SPEAKER_01: good chance that that next electric
SPEAKER_01: vehicle that you buy will be
SPEAKER_01: provisioned for this.
SPEAKER_01: That will be plug-in ready for
SPEAKER_01: this so that when you have that
SPEAKER_01: charger in your garage, when you
SPEAKER_01: pull up to a vehicle to grid
SPEAKER_01: charging station as part of a
SPEAKER_01: workplace charging program in the
SPEAKER_01: future, that your car is
SPEAKER_01: compatible and that we can access
SPEAKER_01: that market potential.
Unknown: At the same time, I also want to
SPEAKER_01: acknowledge that it's a very
SPEAKER_01: nascent market.
SPEAKER_01: We're early in the technology
SPEAKER_01: conversation.
SPEAKER_01: You'll see the first vehicle up
SPEAKER_01: there, the Ford F-150 Lightning.
SPEAKER_01: One of the most exciting
SPEAKER_01: commercials for vehicle to home
SPEAKER_01: or back at Power Commercial two
SPEAKER_01: years ago was the Ford Lightning
SPEAKER_01: truck pulling onto the road and
SPEAKER_01: pulling up in front of a house
SPEAKER_01: that was totally dark, plugging
SPEAKER_01: in the truck and the house
SPEAKER_01: energizing.
SPEAKER_01: Really exciting from a customer
SPEAKER_01: resilience, energy independence
SPEAKER_01: standpoint, a phenomenal customer
SPEAKER_01: experience in terms of that
SPEAKER_01: vehicle being able to enable
SPEAKER_01: something that didn't exist
SPEAKER_01: before.
SPEAKER_01: And at the end of 2025, Ford
SPEAKER_01: announced that they're
SPEAKER_01: discontinuing that particular
SPEAKER_01: model and that they're not going
SPEAKER_01: to be manufacturing that.
SPEAKER_01: Now, they'll likely be switching
SPEAKER_01: to a parallel hybrid and
SPEAKER_01: continuing to invest in this
SPEAKER_01: technology.
SPEAKER_01: But what I want to highlight is
SPEAKER_01: that there is a lot of growth
SPEAKER_01: and shifting in this market.
SPEAKER_01: It's still very early.
SPEAKER_01: And so certainty needs to be
SPEAKER_01: taken with an understanding that
SPEAKER_01: the market is still moving, it's
SPEAKER_01: still evolving, the technology is
SPEAKER_01: still advancing.
SPEAKER_01: And so the importance of
SPEAKER_01: research and development and
SPEAKER_01: building this baseline
SPEAKER_01: understanding into our long-term
SPEAKER_01: plans becomes absolutely critical
SPEAKER_01: for getting it right.
SPEAKER_01: So we have over 80,000 vehicles
SPEAKER_06: that are electric.
SPEAKER_06: But how many of them do we know
SPEAKER_06: are vehicle to grid capable?
SPEAKER_06: So we do not know the specific
SPEAKER_01: number on which of those are.
SPEAKER_01: We expect that it's a pretty low
SPEAKER_01: percentage as most of the
SPEAKER_01: vehicles that are getting are
SPEAKER_01: enabled for full vehicle to grid
SPEAKER_01: are very much in the most recent
SPEAKER_01: model years.
SPEAKER_01: So probably closer to that 12,000
SPEAKER_01: number or less.
Unknown: Yeah, it just makes me think if
SPEAKER_06: we had any idea it would be
SPEAKER_06: interesting just because we're
SPEAKER_06: doing so much to get the battery
SPEAKER_06: walls out.
SPEAKER_06: But we've got these rolling
SPEAKER_06: around town.
SPEAKER_06: And if we can actually figure out
SPEAKER_06: how to do a pilot with them, that
SPEAKER_06: would be fascinating at some
SPEAKER_06: point.
SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01: And I'll have a chance to talk a
SPEAKER_01: little bit in a couple of slides
SPEAKER_01: about what a pilot like that
SPEAKER_01: might look like and the capacity
SPEAKER_01: that we could expect to see.
SPEAKER_01: So that's an exciting
SPEAKER_01: conversation.
Unknown: It's not just a light-duty
SPEAKER_01: conversation, though.
SPEAKER_01: We also see this conversation
SPEAKER_01: taking root in heavy duty.
SPEAKER_01: Zach mentioned that electric
SPEAKER_01: school buses are really a beach
SPEAKER_01: head for the vehicle to grid
SPEAKER_01: conversation.
SPEAKER_01: We're very much seeing that in
SPEAKER_01: California as well.
SPEAKER_01: A large majority of this
SPEAKER_01: conversation is policy driven
SPEAKER_01: with Senate bills supporting
SPEAKER_01: electric vehicle and electric
SPEAKER_01: bus bidirectional capabilities,
SPEAKER_01: advanced clean fleets,
SPEAKER_01: incentives supporting and
SPEAKER_01: standards supporting the
SPEAKER_01: adoption of these vehicles, and
SPEAKER_01: assembly bill 579 actually
SPEAKER_01: setting requirements for school
SPEAKER_01: buses to be fully electrified.
SPEAKER_01: So policy in addition to grid
SPEAKER_01: benefit and customer value is
SPEAKER_01: driving a significant amount of
SPEAKER_01: adoption of these technologies
SPEAKER_01: and giving us an early market
SPEAKER_01: that we can test and evaluate
SPEAKER_01: these technologies to figure out
SPEAKER_01: what these long-term plans are
SPEAKER_01: and what the right scalable
SPEAKER_01: solutions should be.
Unknown: I want to dive into that
SPEAKER_01: potential conversation just a
SPEAKER_01: little bit because we often talk
SPEAKER_01: about load flexibility in terms
SPEAKER_01: of different types of DERs.
SPEAKER_01: What can your commercial battery
SPEAKER_01: do?
SPEAKER_01: What can your residential
SPEAKER_01: battery do?
SPEAKER_01: What can your thermostat do?
SPEAKER_01: And what happens with a lot of
SPEAKER_01: these devices is that they do
SPEAKER_01: start to saturate a little bit.
SPEAKER_01: There are houses that are good
SPEAKER_01: fits for different technologies.
SPEAKER_01: There are cost tradeoffs that a
SPEAKER_01: thermostat still needs to be a
SPEAKER_01: thermostat.
SPEAKER_01: One of the exciting things about
SPEAKER_01: an electric vehicle is that
SPEAKER_01: there's 1.2 million light duty
SPEAKER_01: vehicles roughly in the Sacramento
SPEAKER_01: region.
SPEAKER_01: Customers are converting those
SPEAKER_01: vehicles to electric.
SPEAKER_01: And as they get into 2030, 2035,
SPEAKER_01: 2040, those vehicles are going to
SPEAKER_01: be electric.
SPEAKER_01: This opportunity for capacity
SPEAKER_01: continues to grow independently
SPEAKER_01: of the baseline saturation.
SPEAKER_01: People still need to transport.
SPEAKER_01: People still need to drive.
SPEAKER_01: People still need to commute.
SPEAKER_01: And so we see continued growth.
SPEAKER_01: And as we get out closer to 2040,
SPEAKER_01: we see that vehicle-to-grid
SPEAKER_01: technology has the potential to be
SPEAKER_01: one of our highest capacity
SPEAKER_01: resources eclipsing both the
SPEAKER_01: residential battery and
SPEAKER_01: commercial battery market in terms
SPEAKER_01: of load flexibility solutions.
Unknown: So it really very much is a long
SPEAKER_01: term opportunity that we have the
SPEAKER_01: real opportunity to scale into
SPEAKER_01: today.
Unknown: And so I want to talk a little
SPEAKER_01: bit about the value proposition,
SPEAKER_01: because it's not just how can
SPEAKER_01: these batteries support the grid.
SPEAKER_01: It's customers that are buying
SPEAKER_01: these electric vehicles.
SPEAKER_01: And so it really starts with that
SPEAKER_01: customer value.
SPEAKER_01: It's based on the utility
SPEAKER_01: incentive programs, how we can
SPEAKER_01: improve the return on the
SPEAKER_01: investment for that vehicle by
SPEAKER_01: sharing that resource when the
SPEAKER_01: grid is strained and when we need
SPEAKER_01: it and helping the customer make
SPEAKER_01: that adoption.
SPEAKER_01: It's also that vehicle-to-home,
SPEAKER_01: V2H resiliency conversation, how
SPEAKER_01: they can provide that backup power
SPEAKER_01: for themselves.
SPEAKER_01: And then the last bullet here is
SPEAKER_01: energy management.
SPEAKER_01: I know that we talk a lot about
SPEAKER_01: battery programs and the battery
SPEAKER_01: on the wall being able to help
SPEAKER_01: maximize your solar self-
SPEAKER_01: consumption and your own energy
SPEAKER_01: usage.
SPEAKER_01: But the vehicle in your garage
SPEAKER_01: and the battery in that vehicle
SPEAKER_01: has the ability to provide many
SPEAKER_01: of those same services.
SPEAKER_01: It gives customers that energy
SPEAKER_01: independence, the ability to make
SPEAKER_01: their own choices, and it creates
SPEAKER_01: that value for them at the
SPEAKER_01: customer level.
SPEAKER_01: On the grid side, as we're talking
SPEAKER_01: about those utility programs and
SPEAKER_01: incentives, modeling how we
SPEAKER_01: translate that into actual bulk
SPEAKER_01: grid value, whether that's
SPEAKER_01: resource adequacy, whether that's
SPEAKER_01: optimizing how we operate in the
SPEAKER_01: wholesale energy market, our
SPEAKER_01: distribution system, thinking
SPEAKER_01: about how we can utilize
SPEAKER_01: distributed energy resources to
SPEAKER_01: avoid infrastructure upgrades or
SPEAKER_01: to minimize the impact on existing
SPEAKER_01: infrastructure and prevent having
SPEAKER_01: to build new infrastructure or
SPEAKER_01: limit the amount of new
SPEAKER_01: infrastructure that we have to
SPEAKER_01: build because we have a huge fleet
SPEAKER_01: of batteries that are available
SPEAKER_01: in the existing market that are
SPEAKER_01: being adopted for those other
SPEAKER_01: applications that are idle that
SPEAKER_01: can be shared.
SPEAKER_01: The conversation isn't without
SPEAKER_01: tradeoffs.
SPEAKER_01: When we're using a customer
SPEAKER_01: battery for grid applications,
Unknown: that average charge time is going
SPEAKER_01: to be longer.
SPEAKER_01: There will be a discharge on that
SPEAKER_01: battery.
SPEAKER_01: It will be a recharge if you're
SPEAKER_01: in this program that may exist in
SPEAKER_01: the future.
SPEAKER_01: You walk into your garage.
SPEAKER_01: If it was an unexpected departure,
SPEAKER_01: your battery might be at 75 percent
SPEAKER_01: instead of 100 percent where it
SPEAKER_01: would have otherwise been.
SPEAKER_01: So it's not necessarily a without
SPEAKER_01: tradeoff conversation.
SPEAKER_01: Vehicle location certainty.
SPEAKER_01: As we're talking about fleets and
SPEAKER_01: we're thinking about how we
SPEAKER_01: contract for capacity and how we
SPEAKER_01: make best use of those fleets, we
SPEAKER_01: need to know that those vehicles
SPEAKER_01: are going to be where we expect
SPEAKER_01: them to be and that they're going
SPEAKER_01: to have the level of charge that
SPEAKER_01: we expect them to have so that
SPEAKER_01: that value that they're providing
SPEAKER_01: to the grid is reliable.
SPEAKER_01: We can't have an unreliable
SPEAKER_01: resource that we're counting or
SPEAKER_01: utilizing as part of our overall
SPEAKER_01: reliability portfolio.
SPEAKER_01: And so that's a tradeoff that we
SPEAKER_01: have to figure out how to properly
SPEAKER_01: value with the customers and the
SPEAKER_01: fleet owners in that conversation.
SPEAKER_01: And then the bottom line here is
SPEAKER_01: the potential increase in battery
SPEAKER_01: degradation.
SPEAKER_01: No matter how we look at it,
SPEAKER_01: utilizing a battery for grid
SPEAKER_01: services will put additional
SPEAKER_01: cycles onto the battery system.
SPEAKER_01: It will increase that degradation.
SPEAKER_01: Now, most vehicle to grid
SPEAKER_01: applications, they're pretty slow
SPEAKER_01: charging and discharging relative
SPEAKER_01: to accelerating to get onto the
SPEAKER_01: on-ramp of your local freeway.
SPEAKER_01: And so it's friendly charging and
SPEAKER_01: discharging with respect to
SPEAKER_01: degradation, minimal impact.
SPEAKER_01: But it's nonzero.
SPEAKER_01: And while the automotive OEMs are
SPEAKER_01: working hard to model the
SPEAKER_01: warranties and to incorporate
SPEAKER_01: these provisions, it's not
SPEAKER_01: established science.
SPEAKER_01: It's not consistent across all the
SPEAKER_01: OEMs.
SPEAKER_01: And so from a utility standpoint,
SPEAKER_01: that becomes a tradeoff of
SPEAKER_01: balancing the customer's warranty
SPEAKER_01: and how they would like to use
SPEAKER_01: their electric vehicle against
SPEAKER_01: what the grid needs and what our
SPEAKER_01: programs are most interested in
SPEAKER_01: doing.
Unknown: And so with that, as we've looked
SPEAKER_01: at kind of where we start the
SPEAKER_01: conversation, a significant amount
SPEAKER_01: of our early research has focused
SPEAKER_01: on electric school buses as being
SPEAKER_01: our starting point for the
SPEAKER_01: conversation.
SPEAKER_01: And so I wanted to share just a
SPEAKER_01: little bit of information as to
SPEAKER_01: why we look at school buses to
SPEAKER_01: help us with our early vehicle
SPEAKER_01: to grid evaluations.
SPEAKER_01: In Sacramento, there's about 800
SPEAKER_01: school buses spread out across our
SPEAKER_01: 13 school districts.
SPEAKER_01: And today, already, as of
SPEAKER_01: December 2025, 111 of those buses
SPEAKER_01: are already electrified.
SPEAKER_01: I saw that bullet on this slide
SPEAKER_01: and reviewed it and was just
SPEAKER_01: blown away.
SPEAKER_01: It was a really proud moment for
SPEAKER_01: the region to see just the sheer
SPEAKER_01: number of buses that are already
SPEAKER_01: electrified in Sacramento.
SPEAKER_01: And as many as 72 of those buses
SPEAKER_01: are already vehicle to grid
SPEAKER_01: capable.
SPEAKER_01: So it's a very, very exciting
SPEAKER_01: conversation.
SPEAKER_01: The graph on the right side of
SPEAKER_01: the chart here actually shows a
SPEAKER_01: little bit of information about
SPEAKER_01: why school buses are a great
SPEAKER_01: conversation and opportunity for
SPEAKER_01: vehicle to grid.
SPEAKER_01: The yellow section, labeled depot,
SPEAKER_01: shows when the bus is at that
SPEAKER_01: depot, when it's plugged in, when
SPEAKER_01: it's idle.
SPEAKER_01: It may be charging during that
SPEAKER_01: window.
SPEAKER_01: It may be at a low state of charge
SPEAKER_01: if it just got back.
SPEAKER_01: It may be able to discharge
SPEAKER_01: during that window.
SPEAKER_01: It recharges during the middle of
SPEAKER_01: the day, most likely from solar.
SPEAKER_01: And then it discharges at the end
SPEAKER_01: of the day, 2 o'clock, 3 o'clock,
SPEAKER_01: 4 o'clock while it's taking
SPEAKER_01: students back to their homes
SPEAKER_01: after school.
SPEAKER_01: Returns to the depot and then
SPEAKER_01: begins to recharge.
SPEAKER_01: Any idle capacity that was in
SPEAKER_01: that battery pack can be
SPEAKER_01: available for V2G applications.
SPEAKER_01: When we have our highest peaks in
SPEAKER_01: California, oftentimes they're
SPEAKER_01: summer peaks.
SPEAKER_01: School doesn't tend to be in
SPEAKER_01: session in summer.
SPEAKER_01: Now, while we see peaks showing
SPEAKER_01: up later and later in the year,
SPEAKER_01: that does start to overlap a
SPEAKER_01: little bit, and so there are a
SPEAKER_01: lot of considerations there.
SPEAKER_01: But for a large part of the
SPEAKER_01: summer, a larger portion of this
SPEAKER_01: type of fleet can be available
SPEAKER_01: for vehicle to grid
SPEAKER_01: interactivity and services.
SPEAKER_01: And so it becomes a very exciting
SPEAKER_01: entry point for the conversation.
SPEAKER_01: But we need to make sure that
SPEAKER_01: we're thinking about not just
SPEAKER_01: there are 72 vehicle to grid
SPEAKER_01: enabled school buses in the
SPEAKER_01: region.
SPEAKER_01: We need to make sure that we're
SPEAKER_01: thinking about the full system
SPEAKER_01: of technologies and solutions
SPEAKER_01: and tradeoffs and priorities in
SPEAKER_01: order to get to a full,
SPEAKER_01: successful vehicle to grid
SPEAKER_01: solution.
SPEAKER_01: Having an enabled school bus is
SPEAKER_01: one piece of the puzzle.
SPEAKER_01: To go with that school bus, you
Unknown: have to have a bidirectional
SPEAKER_01: charger that can be properly
SPEAKER_01: interconnected to the grid that
SPEAKER_01: interfaces with that bus that
SPEAKER_01: can provide these bidirectional
SPEAKER_01: charging services.
SPEAKER_01: These are new.
SPEAKER_01: The companies that are
SPEAKER_01: developing these are often
SPEAKER_01: emerging.
SPEAKER_01: Actually, one of the companies
SPEAKER_01: that was providing these
SPEAKER_01: chargers with one of our early
SPEAKER_01: school bus pilots went through a
SPEAKER_01: merger and acquisition, and the
SPEAKER_01: company chose to change
SPEAKER_01: direction and priority on their
SPEAKER_01: V2G pathways.
SPEAKER_01: And so we have a pilot that was
SPEAKER_01: not able to fulfill its full
SPEAKER_01: vehicle to grid opportunity.
SPEAKER_01: That's part of learning.
SPEAKER_01: That's part of this journey.
SPEAKER_01: It's part of why we're doing this
SPEAKER_01: early research and development,
SPEAKER_01: but it also makes sure that we're
SPEAKER_01: being as thoughtful as we can be
SPEAKER_01: about the whole system, not just
SPEAKER_01: the individual components.
SPEAKER_01: And in addition to that
SPEAKER_01: bidirectional charging and those
SPEAKER_01: enabled buses, we have to have
SPEAKER_01: charging service providers and
SPEAKER_01: aggregators.
SPEAKER_01: We're not talking about
SPEAKER_01: individual interfaces to
SPEAKER_01: individual buses or individual
SPEAKER_01: chargers at the utility and
SPEAKER_01: thinking about how we operate
SPEAKER_01: these as grid resources.
SPEAKER_01: We need to think about fleets of
SPEAKER_01: resources, fleets of buses,
SPEAKER_01: hundreds of buses, thousands of
SPEAKER_01: light-duty vehicles, tens of
SPEAKER_01: thousands of light-duty vehicles,
SPEAKER_01: maybe more, aggregated together
SPEAKER_01: to get this footprint that we're
SPEAKER_01: talking about that has
SPEAKER_01: communication pathway
SPEAKER_01: considerations, it has costs, it
SPEAKER_01: has technology complications, and
SPEAKER_01: all of that has to be established,
SPEAKER_01: it has to be in place, it has to
SPEAKER_01: be reliable.
SPEAKER_01: So we're early in the
SPEAKER_01: conversation.
SPEAKER_01: The potential is very real, and
SPEAKER_01: we're in a spot where these
SPEAKER_01: early pilots are defining the
SPEAKER_01: foundation for what these longer
SPEAKER_01: term programs will be.
Unknown: In addition, schools don't buy
SPEAKER_01: buses because they're thinking
SPEAKER_01: about, I want a V2G resource.
SPEAKER_01: Schools are investing in buses
SPEAKER_01: because they have an obligation
SPEAKER_01: for student transportation.
SPEAKER_01: They have time of use and energy
SPEAKER_01: optimization considerations so
SPEAKER_01: that they can lower their
SPEAKER_01: overall costs, including
SPEAKER_01: operation and maintenance of the
SPEAKER_01: vehicles.
SPEAKER_01: They also have their own
SPEAKER_01: environmental initiatives.
SPEAKER_01: When a school bus is
SPEAKER_01: electrified, it's not just the
SPEAKER_01: community around that school that
SPEAKER_01: benefits or the community that
SPEAKER_01: that bus drives through.
SPEAKER_01: It's the kids that are actually
SPEAKER_01: driving on that bus that benefit
SPEAKER_01: from that air quality.
SPEAKER_01: And so it's in line with their
SPEAKER_01: initiative, but those benefits
SPEAKER_01: aren't necessarily tied to V2G.
SPEAKER_01: They're tied to the electric bus.
SPEAKER_01: For V2G, we need the whole
SPEAKER_01: system.
Unknown: On the smud side, we want these
SPEAKER_01: solutions to provide grid
SPEAKER_01: resiliency.
SPEAKER_01: We want to be able to use them
SPEAKER_01: for resource optimization, local
SPEAKER_01: infrastructure support, and
SPEAKER_01: bottom line, we want these to be
SPEAKER_01: part of our overall
SPEAKER_01: decarbonization initiative
SPEAKER_01: and vision.
Unknown: Jumping back a little bit to the
SPEAKER_01: light duty side of the
SPEAKER_01: conversation, we talked a little
SPEAKER_01: bit about what a pilot might
SPEAKER_01: look like and what a number of
SPEAKER_01: vehicles could look like.
SPEAKER_01: On the screen here, we've got a
SPEAKER_01: selection or a snapshot of a
SPEAKER_01: hundred electric vehicles.
SPEAKER_01: And in a simulated demand
SPEAKER_01: response event, and so this was
SPEAKER_01: using actual charging profiles
SPEAKER_01: and vehicle models for this
SPEAKER_01: simulation, and the demand
SPEAKER_01: response event kind of looking
SPEAKER_01: at our 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. on peak
SPEAKER_01: window, what you'll see is a
SPEAKER_01: hundred vehicles.
SPEAKER_01: Of those hundred vehicles, the
SPEAKER_01: vehicles that are orange are
SPEAKER_01: actively charging when this event
SPEAKER_01: was called.
SPEAKER_01: The vehicles that are blue are
SPEAKER_01: plugged in but have finished
SPEAKER_01: charging.
Unknown: And then the vehicles in gray
SPEAKER_01: are enrolled in a program but
SPEAKER_01: not at home during those demand
SPEAKER_01: response hours.
SPEAKER_01: Maybe the event got called at
SPEAKER_01: 5 o'clock and a significant
SPEAKER_01: number of individuals are still
SPEAKER_01: commuting home.
Unknown: And so when we think about what
SPEAKER_01: that means, those orange
SPEAKER_01: vehicles that are charging, if
SPEAKER_01: we're just doing managed
SPEAKER_01: charging, so car charging at
SPEAKER_01: full power, managed charging can
SPEAKER_01: turn that charger off or turn
SPEAKER_01: that charger back on.
SPEAKER_01: We can go all the way from 100
SPEAKER_01: percent down to zero and back
SPEAKER_01: up.
Unknown: With a typical EV charger, that
SPEAKER_01: means 7 kilowatts down to zero
SPEAKER_01: or back up to 7.
SPEAKER_01: We have 7 kilowatts of control.
Unknown: From a grid export or a vehicle
SPEAKER_01: to grid standpoint, we can go
SPEAKER_01: from that 7 kilowatts down to
SPEAKER_01: zero all the way down to
SPEAKER_01: negative 7 kilowatts.
SPEAKER_01: Now we have 14 kilowatts of
SPEAKER_01: load flexibility.
SPEAKER_01: We have twice the capacity from
SPEAKER_01: that same vehicle because of
SPEAKER_01: vehicle to grid compared to
SPEAKER_01: vehicle, compared to V1G or just
SPEAKER_01: managed charging.
SPEAKER_01: Additionally, those blue cars
SPEAKER_01: that you see, if we're talking
SPEAKER_01: about a managed charging
SPEAKER_01: solution, they're not consuming
SPEAKER_01: 7 kilowatts.
SPEAKER_01: They can't go from 7 down to
SPEAKER_01: zero.
SPEAKER_01: They're already at zero.
SPEAKER_01: So we don't actually have any
SPEAKER_01: new capacity or load
SPEAKER_01: flexibility with those vehicles
SPEAKER_01: if all that we're doing is
SPEAKER_01: managed charging.
SPEAKER_01: In a V2G scenario, a car that's
SPEAKER_01: already at 100 percent charge is
SPEAKER_01: a great resource because it
SPEAKER_01: means that there's the maximum
SPEAKER_01: amount of capacity for a
SPEAKER_01: discharge to support that
SPEAKER_01: event, and we can still provide
SPEAKER_01: that full 7 kilowatts of
SPEAKER_01: support.
SPEAKER_01: And then the gray vehicles are
SPEAKER_01: not enrolled, so it's no
SPEAKER_01: participation in either scenario.
SPEAKER_01: So along the bottom here, and
SPEAKER_01: the engineer in me is very
SPEAKER_01: pleased with the fact that
SPEAKER_01: there's math on the slide.
SPEAKER_01: I apologize.
SPEAKER_01: If we look at a selection of
SPEAKER_01: five of these vehicles where
SPEAKER_01: one of them is charging, one of
SPEAKER_01: them is fully charged, and three
SPEAKER_01: of them aren't home yet, if we
SPEAKER_01: have a V1G or a managed
SPEAKER_01: charging solution, we're going
SPEAKER_01: to be able to create 1.4
SPEAKER_01: kilowatts of load flexibility
SPEAKER_01: per electric vehicle.
SPEAKER_01: When we're thinking about that
Unknown: in terms of vehicle to grid and
SPEAKER_01: the ability to export and
SPEAKER_01: discharge that battery actively,
SPEAKER_01: we're able to get 4.2 kilowatts
SPEAKER_01: per electric vehicle, about three
SPEAKER_01: times the impact because we have
SPEAKER_01: that bidirectional capability.
SPEAKER_01: Now, in order to have that
SPEAKER_01: bidirectional capability, we have
SPEAKER_01: to have the right charger.
SPEAKER_01: We have to have the
SPEAKER_01: communications.
SPEAKER_01: We have to have the vehicle
SPEAKER_01: that's capable of doing it.
SPEAKER_01: It's not a hard-working
SPEAKER_01: thing.
SPEAKER_01: It's not a all-the-vehicles-turn-on-in-can-do-that-tomorrow.
SPEAKER_01: The exciting thing for me in this
SPEAKER_01: particular chart is that it
SPEAKER_01: represents the power of large
SPEAKER_01: numbers and the power of a fleet.
SPEAKER_01: And when we talk about 1.2 million
SPEAKER_01: light-duty electric vehicles, it
SPEAKER_01: speaks to the importance of the
SPEAKER_01: work that we're doing in our
SPEAKER_01: managed charging programs today
SPEAKER_01: and the pilots that we have
SPEAKER_01: running.
SPEAKER_01: It speaks to the importance of
SPEAKER_01: building the proper foundation
SPEAKER_01: for vehicle to grid technology,
SPEAKER_01: and it speaks to the importance
SPEAKER_01: of having a solution that
SPEAKER_01: enables all of these types of
SPEAKER_01: vehicles and charging structures
SPEAKER_01: to contribute to the overall
SPEAKER_01: mission in a reliable way that
SPEAKER_01: translates to meaningful grid
SPEAKER_01: value and helps us maintain
SPEAKER_01: affordability as we
SPEAKER_01: decarbonize the region and the
SPEAKER_01: community.
Unknown: Bottom line, the electric
SPEAKER_01: vehicles, the charger, the
SPEAKER_01: pathways all have to be there,
SPEAKER_01: and the alignment of how these
SPEAKER_01: systems are being used has to
SPEAKER_01: be in place.
SPEAKER_01: Today, we've been looking at
SPEAKER_01: research and working with OEMs
SPEAKER_01: and doing device-level
SPEAKER_01: evaluations.
SPEAKER_01: We've done bidirectional
SPEAKER_01: charging pilots in our parking
SPEAKER_01: lot here at our headquarter
SPEAKER_01: facility.
SPEAKER_01: We've worked with the local
SPEAKER_01: school districts on modeling
SPEAKER_01: their vehicle to grid and managed
SPEAKER_01: charging programs.
SPEAKER_01: As we look forward, we are
SPEAKER_01: identifying and expanding our
SPEAKER_01: field-testing opportunities.
SPEAKER_01: We're looking at small-scale
SPEAKER_01: school bus demonstrations.
SPEAKER_01: I say small-scale here because
SPEAKER_01: it's really important that we get
SPEAKER_01: our understanding of the
SPEAKER_01: technology right, our
SPEAKER_01: incentives aligned, and our
SPEAKER_01: strategy is correct before we
SPEAKER_01: send an investment signal to the
SPEAKER_01: schools to lean into a particular
SPEAKER_01: piece of technology through
SPEAKER_01: incentives.
SPEAKER_01: We want to make sure that the
SPEAKER_01: investments that are being made
SPEAKER_01: in this space are durable and
SPEAKER_01: create long-term value.
SPEAKER_01: And then as we move out past
SPEAKER_01: this 2028 horizon, we're excited
SPEAKER_01: to look towards these scaled
SPEAKER_01: pilots.
SPEAKER_01: We're excited to look towards
SPEAKER_01: full program development and
SPEAKER_01: really unleashing the value that
SPEAKER_01: we see in that capacity chart,
SPEAKER_01: but doing that in a way that is
SPEAKER_01: built on proven technology and
SPEAKER_01: highly reliable solutions.
SPEAKER_01: And that's where I'm excited to
SPEAKER_01: see this technology go and grow.
Unknown: Wonderful.
SPEAKER_06: Does anybody have any questions
SPEAKER_06: for James?
SPEAKER_06: Yes, go right in.
Unknown: So looking at this chart, would
SPEAKER_08: it be safe to say that everything
SPEAKER_08: is going to be lined up by 2029,
Unknown: that we'll be doing this here in
SPEAKER_08: SMUD's territory?
SPEAKER_01: That's in line with my
SPEAKER_01: expectation.
SPEAKER_01: However, I do want to caveat
SPEAKER_01: that with the industry and
SPEAKER_01: especially the automotive
SPEAKER_01: industry is largely influenced by
SPEAKER_01: federal policy and state policy,
SPEAKER_01: and so there's a lot of things
SPEAKER_01: that have to happen to make this
SPEAKER_01: work, and a lot of those things
SPEAKER_01: are larger than our ability to
SPEAKER_01: directly influence, acknowledging
SPEAKER_01: that we do swing outside our
SPEAKER_01: weight class on a lot of these
SPEAKER_01: topics and that we fiercely
SPEAKER_01: advocate for the things that we
SPEAKER_01: think create the value that we're
SPEAKER_01: looking for.
SPEAKER_08: Well, I just want to say thank
SPEAKER_08: you for a very interesting
SPEAKER_08: presentation.
Unknown: Anybody else?
SPEAKER_08: Sure.
Unknown: James, come.
SPEAKER_02: No, you're not going to get
SPEAKER_02: away.
SPEAKER_02: You have to talk in the
SPEAKER_06: microphone.
SPEAKER_06: A couple of thoughts and things.
SPEAKER_02: One, I would encourage staff to
SPEAKER_02: explore the aspects of behavioral
SPEAKER_02: psychology and being creative
SPEAKER_02: with these programs.
SPEAKER_02: We're saying, okay, we're going
SPEAKER_02: to give them the XX cents per
SPEAKER_02: kilowatt hour that they are in.
SPEAKER_02: I think you had a demand charge
SPEAKER_02: you're making it complicated,
SPEAKER_02: right?
SPEAKER_02: Or you can say, okay, we're
SPEAKER_02: going to give you X number of
SPEAKER_02: tokens and for every time your
SPEAKER_02: cart is plugged in during the
SPEAKER_02: summer months.
SPEAKER_02: We may not pull it whatsoever,
SPEAKER_02: but we're going to give you
SPEAKER_02: something.
SPEAKER_02: When it's plugged in and you
SPEAKER_02: have pick your poison, 70%
SPEAKER_02: charge already on it, right?
SPEAKER_02: And then you can exchange it for,
SPEAKER_02: okay, I'm going to pay for my
SPEAKER_02: green energy this month or maybe
SPEAKER_02: we'll give them something for
SPEAKER_02: the energy store or even
SPEAKER_02: something that's, you know,
SPEAKER_02: smaller, we're going to give you
SPEAKER_02: a special sticker when you get
SPEAKER_02: up to a number.
SPEAKER_02: There's all kinds of creative
SPEAKER_02: ideas.
SPEAKER_02: Humans don't necessarily value
SPEAKER_02: the dollar in the same way.
SPEAKER_02: When you look at that behavior,
SPEAKER_02: it's just, anyway, I'm sort of
SPEAKER_02: manual, but something to think
SPEAKER_02: about as you're developing
SPEAKER_02: programs is how to gamify it.
SPEAKER_02: And the classic restaurant
SPEAKER_02: example, right, that we've talked
SPEAKER_02: about in the past and giving,
SPEAKER_02: do you want to roll the dice
SPEAKER_02: for a free meal or do you want
SPEAKER_02: a 15% discount off your meal,
SPEAKER_02: you know, and economically end
SPEAKER_02: at the same place, but it's a
SPEAKER_02: much different behavioral
SPEAKER_02: psychology.
SPEAKER_02: One of the things that didn't
SPEAKER_02: get a real clear view on, so
SPEAKER_02: here's a real question, but one
SPEAKER_02: thing I didn't hear real
SPEAKER_02: clearly tonight, though, is like
Unknown: it sounds like we have, we've
SPEAKER_02: done some pilots at SMUT on
SPEAKER_02: actual back feeding into our
SPEAKER_02: grid, right?
SPEAKER_02: And so for me, I think the
SPEAKER_02: biggest question is like, have
SPEAKER_02: we fully integrated through a
SPEAKER_02: communications protocol, and I
SPEAKER_02: know there's a whole slew of
SPEAKER_02: different protocols out there to
SPEAKER_02: enable it, like to actually hook
SPEAKER_02: into our Derm system, right?
SPEAKER_02: And so when these capable
SPEAKER_02: chargers, which it seems that
SPEAKER_02: there are some, but it's still
SPEAKER_02: really not clear how many
SPEAKER_02: there really are, are these
SPEAKER_02: chargers going to have to go
SPEAKER_02: through a grid interconnection
SPEAKER_02: process, right, or some rule to
SPEAKER_02: 21 process, are they more like
SPEAKER_02: a solar inverter?
SPEAKER_02: And so this is what I think is
SPEAKER_02: an aspect, and we really thought
SPEAKER_02: that through at this point and
SPEAKER_02: piloted, like, or have we piloted
SPEAKER_02: it yet, right?
SPEAKER_02: So working with our
Unknown: interconnection process was
SPEAKER_01: actually a huge component and one
SPEAKER_01: of the value add efforts
SPEAKER_01: associated with our Twin Rivers
SPEAKER_01: V2G bus pilot, and so we are
SPEAKER_01: working with our interconnection
SPEAKER_01: process to accommodate processes
SPEAKER_01: and procedures for how we bring
SPEAKER_01: these devices online.
SPEAKER_01: So the answer to that is yes.
SPEAKER_01: The pilot that we did in our
SPEAKER_01: parking lot here was actually
SPEAKER_01: done, we were one of the first
SPEAKER_01: to do this type of pilot, it was
SPEAKER_01: done with a Chadmo charge
SPEAKER_01: connector, so the previous
SPEAKER_01: generation, it was one of the
SPEAKER_01: earliest that was actually fully
SPEAKER_01: provisioned for bi-directional.
SPEAKER_01: We used a number of the Nissan
SPEAKER_01: Leafs in our existing fleet to
SPEAKER_01: support that pilot.
SPEAKER_01: Chadmo is no longer a widely
SPEAKER_01: available standard bi-automotive
SPEAKER_01: OEMs or chargers, so we were
SPEAKER_01: not one to one, but it did
SPEAKER_01: provide us the opportunity to do
SPEAKER_01: that modeling, understand the
SPEAKER_01: impact on the electric vehicle
SPEAKER_01: state of charge.
SPEAKER_01: But it was because it was with
SPEAKER_01: that previous generation of
SPEAKER_01: technology that we were able to
SPEAKER_01: do that so early and get those
SPEAKER_01: learnings and our initiative
SPEAKER_01: started so early.
SPEAKER_01: I guess what's sort of what
SPEAKER_02: we're actually going to see, I
Unknown: was just doing a deep dive into
SPEAKER_02: balcony, some balcony solar
SPEAKER_02: policy, and it's the same, some
SPEAKER_02: basic ideas that we're letting
SPEAKER_02: people plug into a socket in
SPEAKER_02: their wall, and the UL working
SPEAKER_02: group put out a report in the
SPEAKER_02: video very recently, sort of
SPEAKER_02: running through a whole slew of
SPEAKER_02: problems.
SPEAKER_02: So I think it still comes back
SPEAKER_02: to how do you interconnect
Unknown: economically and as efficiently
SPEAKER_02: as possible, right?
SPEAKER_02: You probably don't have the
SPEAKER_02: luxury of spending several
SPEAKER_02: thousand dollars for each house
SPEAKER_02: that you get VGI ready.
SPEAKER_02: But it would be interesting,
SPEAKER_02: you guys can go play with the
SPEAKER_02: numbers and then do that homework,
SPEAKER_02: too.
SPEAKER_02: And similarly to the way that we
SPEAKER_01: manage solar inverters, the
SPEAKER_01: direction from the CEC and the
SPEAKER_01: direction from the state more
SPEAKER_01: largely on the topic is going to
SPEAKER_01: be a key contributor to how we
SPEAKER_01: manage those processes.
SPEAKER_01: It's not the type of problem or
SPEAKER_01: technology that we're going to be
SPEAKER_01: able to kind of independently move
SPEAKER_01: forward.
SPEAKER_01: It needs to be part of the
SPEAKER_01: larger industry coalition.
Unknown: Thank you.
SPEAKER_03: So I see that there is interest
SPEAKER_03: in movement actually from the
SPEAKER_03: auto manufacturers in being able
SPEAKER_03: to provide this type of
SPEAKER_03: technology, but I also hear that
SPEAKER_03: there's reluctance on their part
SPEAKER_03: because of the, you know, it sort
SPEAKER_03: of changes what they're selling
SPEAKER_03: and that hasn't been overcome
SPEAKER_03: yet.
SPEAKER_03: My understanding is that there's
SPEAKER_03: still a lot of reluctance to
SPEAKER_03: fully move in that direction
SPEAKER_03: because of the concerns about how
SPEAKER_03: does this affect our warranty and
SPEAKER_03: the lifetime of the lifespan of
SPEAKER_03: the car and all that.
SPEAKER_03: So could you talk about that?
SPEAKER_01: So the warranty is definitely a
SPEAKER_01: significant barrier, especially
SPEAKER_01: as the different automotive OEMs
SPEAKER_01: have different confidence in
SPEAKER_01: their battery systems.
SPEAKER_01: Just speaking a little bit from
SPEAKER_01: personal experience, my first
SPEAKER_01: electric vehicle was a Nissan
SPEAKER_01: Leaf and I think when I traded it
SPEAKER_01: in it had about 24 miles of range
SPEAKER_01: on it.
SPEAKER_01: More recently now I drive a truck
SPEAKER_01: and I think over 40,000 miles it
SPEAKER_01: still charges to the same range
SPEAKER_01: that it did the day that I bought
SPEAKER_01: it and I'm over the moon about it.
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that the quality
SPEAKER_01: of battery and the degradation
SPEAKER_01: that happens is going to vary by
SPEAKER_01: OEM and that's going to influence
SPEAKER_01: this warranty conversation.
SPEAKER_01: I also think that when we're
SPEAKER_01: talking about the dollars and the
SPEAKER_01: scale of the conversation that we
SPEAKER_01: saw and the billions of dollars
SPEAKER_01: that are in the dialogue here,
SPEAKER_01: that a big part of the
SPEAKER_01: conversation is also who's getting
SPEAKER_01: paid for these services.
SPEAKER_01: Are these dollars that the
SPEAKER_01: utility is paying and if the
SPEAKER_01: utility is paying them, are we
SPEAKER_01: paying them to the end customer
SPEAKER_01: that owns the car in the garage?
SPEAKER_01: Are we paying it to the aggregator
SPEAKER_01: that owns the car in the garage?
SPEAKER_01: Are we paying the dispatch
SPEAKER_01: services?
SPEAKER_01: Are we paying it to the
SPEAKER_01: automotive OEM because their
SPEAKER_01: vehicle is enabling this service?
SPEAKER_01: Are we paying it to the EVSE,
SPEAKER_01: charge equipment manufacturer,
SPEAKER_01: because their technology is the
SPEAKER_01: actual point of interconnection to
SPEAKER_01: the grid.
SPEAKER_01: And so it's not clear what that
SPEAKER_01: overall business model is for the
SPEAKER_01: industry yet and who gets paid is
SPEAKER_01: a question that needs to be
SPEAKER_01: answered and needs to be supported
SPEAKER_01: and provide positive business
SPEAKER_01: models for everyone involved,
SPEAKER_01: and the customer.
SPEAKER_01: And so that's a big open
SPEAKER_01: question that a lot of the early
SPEAKER_01: pilots and the work that we saw
SPEAKER_01: these large incentives going out
SPEAKER_01: for are really looking to try and
SPEAKER_01: answer is how do we make sure
SPEAKER_01: that we're creating a solution
SPEAKER_01: that is not just sustainable for
SPEAKER_01: the businesses because we have to
SPEAKER_01: have reliable technology but
SPEAKER_01: improves affordability for the
SPEAKER_01: participating customers and just
SPEAKER_01: as important improves
SPEAKER_01: affordability for all customers.
Unknown: James, maybe this is a question
SPEAKER_04: for our previous presenter.
SPEAKER_04: I'm not sure.
Unknown: Where is state policy on this?
SPEAKER_04: We know the federal government is
SPEAKER_04: not going to be helpful on this
SPEAKER_04: for at least a few more years.
SPEAKER_04: Does state policy get this?
SPEAKER_04: Are they actively doing things to
SPEAKER_04: make vehicle to grid integration
SPEAKER_04: easier, better, faster, smarter,
SPEAKER_04: or are they just kind of
SPEAKER_04: agnostic about it?
SPEAKER_04: What's the situation?
SPEAKER_04: They are very much on board with
SPEAKER_01: this and supportive.
SPEAKER_01: The recent study by the CEC
SPEAKER_01: identified massive potential and
SPEAKER_01: strong support for the
SPEAKER_01: conversation.
SPEAKER_01: They are also doing a lot of work
SPEAKER_01: on identifying qualified and
SPEAKER_01: approved bidirectional EV
SPEAKER_01: chargers and following similar
SPEAKER_01: processes to what they do for
SPEAKER_01: their solar interconnection
SPEAKER_01: process.
SPEAKER_01: So I would say that the state and
SPEAKER_01: state policy is in strong
SPEAKER_01: alignment with the direction that
SPEAKER_01: this technology is going.
Unknown: And CEC, current CEC commissioner
SPEAKER_06: was the senator.
SPEAKER_06: She actually introduced a bill to
SPEAKER_06: I think it was require all
SPEAKER_06: electric vehicles be bidirectional
SPEAKER_06: by certain year.
SPEAKER_06: It failed.
SPEAKER_06: But these conversations have been
SPEAKER_06: ongoing for several years.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: Everybody else?
Unknown: Okay.
Unknown: Then I am going to move.
SPEAKER_06: Oh, no, you're going to stay
SPEAKER_06: there, I think, because I'm
SPEAKER_06: suspecting that you might be
SPEAKER_06: needed again.
SPEAKER_06: I have a couple of questions
SPEAKER_06: from the board.
SPEAKER_06: I have received a card from John
SPEAKER_06: Weber who would like to comment
SPEAKER_06: on this item.
SPEAKER_06: So we'll go ahead and turn it
SPEAKER_06: over to you, Mr. Weber.
Unknown: Good evening, Chairwoman, board
SPEAKER_07: of directors and committee
SPEAKER_07: members.
SPEAKER_07: Thanks for bringing this on the
SPEAKER_07: agenda.
SPEAKER_07: I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_07: Thanks to both of the presenters.
SPEAKER_07: They were excellent.
SPEAKER_07: I did have a handout.
SPEAKER_07: I had 15 copies.
SPEAKER_07: I see there are 16 people.
SPEAKER_07: So one person might not get the
SPEAKER_07: handout.
SPEAKER_07: Is it this one?
SPEAKER_07: So there it is.
SPEAKER_07: Yep.
SPEAKER_07: So you could hand that out,
SPEAKER_07: please.
SPEAKER_07: And what I'd like to say is that
SPEAKER_07: at least one bi-directional
SPEAKER_07: charging company, SIG Energy, has
SPEAKER_07: found a way to communicate with
SPEAKER_07: pretty much every electric vehicle
SPEAKER_07: made that has DC fast charging.
SPEAKER_07: They do it through the DC way.
SPEAKER_07: And so that handout will show you
SPEAKER_07: a list of the vehicles that it
SPEAKER_07: but I would say probably 75% of
SPEAKER_07: the 80% of the vehicles on the
SPEAKER_07: road and Sacramento can do
Unknown: bi-directional charging with this
SPEAKER_07: charger.
SPEAKER_07: So that's a positive thing.
SPEAKER_07: So as long as you have DC fast
SPEAKER_07: charging, they could connect with
SPEAKER_07: their software.
SPEAKER_07: The ones on the list that I
SPEAKER_07: provided, those have been all
SPEAKER_07: tested in the United States.
SPEAKER_07: And they will go with any
SPEAKER_07: different model year.
SPEAKER_07: It doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_07: So that's a real positive point.
SPEAKER_07: And another point I saw a couple
SPEAKER_07: people ask was about battery
SPEAKER_07: degradation.
SPEAKER_07: A few years ago, the Idaho
SPEAKER_07: National Laboratory did
SPEAKER_07: better radiation studies on
Unknown: bi-directional charging.
SPEAKER_07: And it was very favorable in some
SPEAKER_07: cases depending on what they did
SPEAKER_07: that the life of the battery was
SPEAKER_07: actually longer.
SPEAKER_07: So because of the way the
SPEAKER_07: charging was versus just sitting
SPEAKER_07: there.
SPEAKER_07: So I think those would be very
SPEAKER_07: easy to overcome.
SPEAKER_07: And thanks again for the whole
SPEAKER_07: committee and for the presenters.
SPEAKER_07: And hopefully everybody gets that
SPEAKER_07: handout.
SPEAKER_07: And I can also put in written
SPEAKER_07: comment when I get home tonight
SPEAKER_07: a link to that handout.
SPEAKER_07: So, John, I just want to make
SPEAKER_06: sure I understand.
SPEAKER_06: Because it's cut off on this
SPEAKER_06: side.
SPEAKER_07: It is, yeah.
SPEAKER_07: The copy store cut off both
SPEAKER_07: sides.
SPEAKER_07: So the left side has a brand
SPEAKER_07: name.
SPEAKER_07: The first one is Volvo.
SPEAKER_07: Most of the people know the
SPEAKER_07: other ones.
SPEAKER_07: I don't have a copy because I
SPEAKER_07: gave them all away.
SPEAKER_07: On the right-hand side it says
SPEAKER_07: United States.
SPEAKER_07: I searched just the ones that
SPEAKER_07: have been tested in the U.S. and
SPEAKER_07: are working.
SPEAKER_07: So even like the most popular
SPEAKER_07: models here, the Tesla Model 3
SPEAKER_07: and Model Y both work.
SPEAKER_07: So, and they weren't on the list
SPEAKER_07: of the presentation.
SPEAKER_07: That's why I shared that.
SPEAKER_07: So you're saying that there's a
SPEAKER_06: charger that can basically work
SPEAKER_06: with any of the vehicles?
SPEAKER_06: Pretty much any vehicle that has
SPEAKER_07: DC fast charging.
SPEAKER_07: Because they have a logarithm
SPEAKER_07: that works through the DC port.
SPEAKER_07: And, yeah, so it's not just like
SPEAKER_07: a few thousand vehicles.
SPEAKER_07: It's probably like 50,000 plus
SPEAKER_07: vehicles.
SPEAKER_07: Okay.
Unknown: Might you share what you know on
SPEAKER_06: this, Jay?
Unknown: Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01: So the way that DC fast charging
SPEAKER_01: works is that it's through J1772
SPEAKER_01: and it uses a CAN communication
SPEAKER_01: bus to provide control signals so
SPEAKER_01: that the vehicle can monitor the
SPEAKER_01: speed of charging that's going in
SPEAKER_01: and out of the vehicle.
SPEAKER_01: And so what a number of charging
SPEAKER_01: companies are looking to do is to
SPEAKER_01: figure out how they can inject
SPEAKER_01: their signal into that to allow
SPEAKER_01: the vehicle to accept a negative
SPEAKER_01: charge rate instead of a positive
SPEAKER_01: charge rate.
SPEAKER_01: So the vehicle thinks that it's
SPEAKER_01: being charged when in reality the
SPEAKER_01: charger is actually pulling
SPEAKER_01: energy out of the battery pack.
SPEAKER_01: I'm not particularly familiar
SPEAKER_01: with this individual piece of
SPEAKER_01: technology.
SPEAKER_01: And while it's exciting, it is an
SPEAKER_01: area that is not fully supported
SPEAKER_01: by automotive OEMs.
SPEAKER_01: It does have a lot of warranty
SPEAKER_01: voiding issues.
SPEAKER_01: And so from a feasibility
SPEAKER_01: standpoint and a technical
SPEAKER_01: potential standpoint, it's an
SPEAKER_01: exciting conversation.
SPEAKER_01: But it's one that often would
SPEAKER_01: require customers to actually
SPEAKER_01: directly void the warranty on
SPEAKER_01: their battery in order to engage
SPEAKER_01: with this type of charger.
SPEAKER_01: So it's not one that we would
SPEAKER_01: look at for a standard program
SPEAKER_01: offering short of having full
SPEAKER_01: warranty support and making sure
SPEAKER_01: that we weren't doing anything
SPEAKER_01: that was going to compromise the
SPEAKER_01: customer's value in their
SPEAKER_01: vehicle.
SPEAKER_06: Still so interesting, though.
SPEAKER_06: I hadn't heard of this.
SPEAKER_06: Thank you, John.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I think you'll see more of
SPEAKER_07: it.
SPEAKER_07: And they're working with the OEMs
SPEAKER_07: currently, these chargers.
SPEAKER_07: Fascinating.
SPEAKER_07: So I think it'll open it up to
SPEAKER_07: everything with DC fast charging.
SPEAKER_07: Wow.
SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
SPEAKER_07: Appreciate the comments.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
Unknown: One more thing, James.
SPEAKER_02: I was sort of just thinking,
SPEAKER_02: right, have we given any thought
SPEAKER_02: or contemplated incentives for
SPEAKER_02: these chargers that are grid
SPEAKER_02: intertide capable?
SPEAKER_02: And if we have given any thought
SPEAKER_02: to how that could be built into
SPEAKER_02: the existing BPP virtual power
SPEAKER_02: program as it's finally gaining
SPEAKER_02: traction, we're putting out a
SPEAKER_02: pretty good sized incentive for
SPEAKER_02: that.
SPEAKER_02: But it's the same.
SPEAKER_02: It has that interconnection in
Unknown: there already.
SPEAKER_02: So it would be great to think.
SPEAKER_02: It seems like there's a
SPEAKER_02: potential sort of opening there
SPEAKER_02: that you could potentially build
SPEAKER_02: on.
SPEAKER_02: And that's a core component of
SPEAKER_01: the research and modeling that
SPEAKER_01: we're doing today is figuring out
SPEAKER_01: what the right level for those
SPEAKER_01: types of incentives are.
SPEAKER_01: We do a lot of work to try and be
SPEAKER_01: almost kilowatt agnostic in terms
SPEAKER_01: of the DER technology.
SPEAKER_01: If it meets the same level of
SPEAKER_01: performance and reliability
SPEAKER_01: requirements, we want to be
SPEAKER_01: paying it the same amount.
SPEAKER_01: So as we're talking about what a
SPEAKER_01: V2G program would look like
SPEAKER_01: versus what a battery on the wall
SPEAKER_01: program would look like, those
SPEAKER_01: numbers start side by side.
SPEAKER_01: We may derate the V2G
SPEAKER_01: conversation because we don't
SPEAKER_01: know that that vehicle is going
SPEAKER_01: to be there.
SPEAKER_01: But we calculate those numbers
SPEAKER_01: being thoughtful of each other,
SPEAKER_01: not independently of each other.
Unknown: Okay.
Unknown: Well, let's see.
SPEAKER_06: We will check to see if we have
SPEAKER_06: any public comments for items
SPEAKER_06: that are any other virtual
SPEAKER_06: attendee comments.
SPEAKER_06: No, we do not.
SPEAKER_06: Or any public comments for items
SPEAKER_06: not on the agenda?
Unknown: No.
Unknown: Okay.
Unknown: I don't see any.
Unknown: Then let's see.
Unknown: I think the written comments
SPEAKER_06: received, and I want to thank
SPEAKER_06: you, James and Zach, very much
SPEAKER_06: for this.
SPEAKER_06: It was a very interesting
SPEAKER_06: conversation.
SPEAKER_06: The written comments received
SPEAKER_06: on items not on the agenda will
SPEAKER_06: be included in the record if
SPEAKER_06: received within two hours at the
SPEAKER_06: end of the meeting.
Unknown: The last item on the agenda is
SPEAKER_06: to provide a summary of
SPEAKER_06: committee direction.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
Unknown: And I would just say that for me.
SPEAKER_06: I would just love to have an
SPEAKER_06: update on this fairly, like, I
SPEAKER_06: don't know, annually or
SPEAKER_06: biannually.
SPEAKER_06: It's so interesting.
SPEAKER_06: And this is evolving so quickly.
SPEAKER_06: We'd love to.
SPEAKER_06: I mean, I would at least as one
SPEAKER_06: board member.
SPEAKER_06: I don't know if anybody else is
SPEAKER_06: interested.
SPEAKER_08: I think you're right.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: Because this could really improve
SPEAKER_06: our resilience if we can figure
SPEAKER_06: this out.
SPEAKER_06: And I'd also like to hear how
SPEAKER_06: these other pilots are starting to
SPEAKER_06: come back from these other IOUs
SPEAKER_06: and so forth.
SPEAKER_06: Fascinating.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: So it looks like a lot of head
SPEAKER_06: nighting on that.
SPEAKER_06: So maybe that's the committee
SPEAKER_06: direction is just hopefully every
SPEAKER_06: year we can get an update on
SPEAKER_06: this.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: Everybody's good.
SPEAKER_06: All right.
Unknown: Thank you.
SPEAKER_06: And then the policy committee will
SPEAKER_06: begin at the conclusion of this
SPEAKER_06: meeting.
SPEAKER_06: There will be a brief pause while
SPEAKER_06: staff stops the recording for the
SPEAKER_06: committee meeting and starts the
SPEAKER_06: recording for the policy committee
SPEAKER_06: meeting.
SPEAKER_06: So with that we are adjourned.
SPEAKER_06: And we will.
Unknown: Thank you.